Come and be a better parent in the trenches! Thread 2

[BertieBotts]

Terrible title sorry Next time we'll start the discussion at 900 posts, OK?

Originally started by AnotherMonkey, we are trying to improve our parenting which may include less shouting (www.theorangerhino.com) and positive boundary setting (www.ahaparenting.com), or any other goal you want. If you want to be more authoritative that's a great cause too. No judging of parenting styles allowed, honest critique OK. There is occasionally homework (but really, honest, we're nice and don't care if you want to skip past that bit)

Dumping of emotions/ranting after a bad day also acceptable. The saying "in the trenches" refers mainly to having 2+ under 5 but really any stage which is repetitive, challenging, soul destroying about parenting.

Books recommended so far:
How To Talk so Kids Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk
When Your Kids Push Your Buttons
The Happiness Project
Calmer Easier Happier Parenting
The Explosive Child
The Highly Sensitive Child

Please post a little intro/reminder just with your DCs ages/stages and any extra challenges - a couple of us have relocated abroad, that kind of thing.

more snow the argument in relation to descriptive praise is that it identifies and labels the good behaviour, and focuses on the behaviour rather than the person. So "good boy" is useful shorthand, but describes the child, rather than what he has done. So today DD1 helped me tidy up after both children had chucked the contents of the art box all over their room. So I would say to her "DD, thank you so much for helping me clear up all the mess. You worked really hard at it and made sure that everything was put away neatly. You showed thoughtfulness and determination". It seems like they aren't listening when you produce this (to me) spiel, but it really does work

But bertiebotts will be able to tell how you to do it better. I'm still learning...

I can't help the well done from.slipping out too though! I'd say oh well done, that's made it so much easier that you've helped tidy up. Oh wait, what's that? A flying pig?! (I am having no joy getting.them to help tidy up. dd helps a little bit, sometimes. The dts- nada)

My lot were awful today. DD was screaming at us. Told dh she'd kick him if he didn't superglue the toy she wanted now. I lost my.temper at bedtime.when we'd moved an old toy (horses and stables set) of mine I shouldn't have given dd yet got partially broken by the dts so I tried to put it in dd's bedroom. All continued arguing over it then dts walloped dd hard round the head woth a very solid horse so I said it was going away. Put dts in own rooms and shut doors while i calmed down. DD went mental. Tried to explain we'd play with it while they napped. She continued to go ballistic. We ended up doing the "draw me how angry you are" strategy which she loved but not before dts reemerged and continued to specifically torment dd so I just went off and hunted out the travel stair gate to keep them out of her room. And breathe. That's a short clip of how our day has been. All. Day. Long.

Leaving dh with the dc tomorrow while I go.down to visit my sister. She was back in hospital today, having trouble.with coughing up too much blood and ongoing uncontrolled pain and difficulty breathing. She continues to be very unwell but is going in daily as an outpatient which is good. I just can't get my head round that she nearly died Maybe a necessary. distraction from how dreadful the dc are behaving. i manage ok sometimes but not consistently enough.
Gah. enough of.today. Off to bed.

Oh and.that "shouting" doesn't count. But yeah, buy a whistle, just for our entertainment

Oh and on bikes i give mine a spot to find and all wait there for me. I do jog ith the one at the back. DD is usually really great at it. DTs can be a bit hit or miss. They all know the rule is 'stay in sight' doesn't mean they flipping do it . In fact my only tip is develop nerves of steel

Yes, descriptive praise works really well here too, particularly with DS (who is that bit older). Generally speaking, it's more 'noticing' than gushing. So if DS did something really spectacular, I would praise the hell out of it. But my understanding of descriptive praise is the daily, hourly, minutely observation of the good stuff. So stuff like 'DS, you just put that wrapper in the bin without me saying a word. That was really helpful, thanks'. Or 'thank you for coming to tell me - you handled that just right'.

Oops x post hold on...

dreaming I know exactly what you mean - for me it's the 'good boy' which just slips out. Where does it come from?!

That sounds like a tough day. And all pretty familiar, although no twins here thankfully

Im so sorry to hear about your sister :( I really hope things improve soon x

DS has grown up a lot since I started the first thread and, while he still has his moments, he's like a different child on the whole. DD on the other hand, who gave me no real problems at the beginning, is now feisty as hell but also

Congratulations mandbaby enjoy your babymoon

Dreaming - my kids were like that today. I did manage to hold it together though and didn't shout once...very almost though! I did send DD2 to her room for a 5 minute time out - no less than 6 times though. She was pretty awful, think it was tiredness really and I think the time outs helped her deal with it much better than both of us just having a massive argument about it. We did spend quite a lot of time outside in the afternoon - to stop us all getting cabin fever and I think it helped a lot.
Unfortunately, DH didn't manage to not shout. He shouted many times, and I called him up on it each time, and told him he was making excuses for it and needed to get a hold of his temper. He did eventually acknowledge this but it's really hard

Oh yes, congratulations mandbaby How wonderful.

I do it with both phrases actually anothermonkey And my dh won't read anything and constantly says good boy/girl, well done etc.

Oh, and perhaps I'll have a think about the whistle. Perhaps I could give each child their own signature, Von Trapp style; I wonder if the sheep and pony could also be trained?

mandbaby - congrats! How lovely. :)

So sorry to hear about your sister, Dreaming

squirrelling it was like that here today too. You know those days when you KNOW that the only way to all make it through the afternoon alive is to get out, but just getting out is almost more than you can bear? DD was in meltdown because her wellies were not satisfactory, because she wanted to leave NOWWWW (shoes are for wimps), because she WAS going to get dressed herself for the third time , because the pushchair was in the car but she wanted me to carry her, because she wanted to get in the pushchair, NOOO she wanted to walk, seriously DS they're wellies JUST PULL THEM ON. Hold on, DS needs a wee, well if you want a wee too DD you can wait or go upstairs (response indicates both options clearly unsuitable).

We made it in the end and it was worth the pain. Until we had to leave

Ha YES please do the whistle thing. We've not had homework for ages... I want you on YouTube by the end of the week

Yep I used to substitute my automatic "Well done/Good boy" with a "Thank you for..." which meant I said some really odd sentences like "Thank you for stopping at the road". Now I find it really odd to say "Good boy", it is so alien to me in relation to children that it sounds like something you say to a dog.

DS was literally bouncing off the walls today, it's his birthday tomorrow. I was totally at a loss of what to do with him half an hour before bedtime because he was so giddy he almost lost it completely. I shut myself in the bedroom (while he literally bounced off the door behind me) and then decided I would run him a bath. It didn't calm him down, but he was contained! And the water was slightly more calming than him running around flinging laundry I was trying to fold almost out of the window, etc. Then he put himself to bed as protest at being asked to wash his hair, and he had been so hyper and impossible that I left him to it So that was nice and easy. Sugar filled excitement of a day tomorrow - we left it too late to sort out a party so he is having pancakes for breakfast, BBQ chicken legs for dinner and watching a film with DH, and playing with his presents.

Vent away Rhet. That sounds truly maddening

The above post by me is a complete cross post sent on phone early. Doh.

at the thought of squirreling s whistle trained entourage.

Re bikes ..yes a second vote here for nerves of steel! My younger is much better on roads than my older one and I believe it is mostly down to more time spent getting to swimming lessons/ other activities by bike. (As well as some individual differences relating to alertness and generally being on this planet rather than some other place....) So my advice would be lots of just getting out there with bikes. When they were younger we had an islabikes trailer bike which fixed to a special rear rack ( better than seat post fastening which tend to cut corners and lean a bit) they used to take it in turns going on this largely because it made it easier for me, one "loose" and one attached much safer than two loose.
Make the most of it while they are young. At nearly 13 and 14 my two think that going out on bikes with mum is absolutely not cool and it is virtually impossible to just go out and have fun on two wheels the way we used to.

Descriptive praise, yes to what monkey said, it is about noticing the good stuff and showing them you've noticed it by describing it with a bit of praise thrown in. With mine it might be "I really liked the way you got on with that homework without any fuss, there are barely any crossings out and the writing is really clear." If it is something they really normally kick off about and one day (miraculously) they do it and forget to don't have a strop that is a good time to leap in and "notice" with bells on. (Who was it that was having welly traumas? )

Re DHs being on plan with parenting styles etc. mine also doesn't get why I would want to read books or change anything we do. Also defensive when asked to read "HTT" with quips about how I think he's a terrible parent ("Noooooo, You are brilliant at lots of parenting stuff I just think there would be less shouting, more co-operation and maybe the teenage years won't result in one of them leaving home and living in a squat if perhaps you just develop a few ....listening skills.....") but they do pick up on what they see working and descriptive praise is very effective and catching. If I was to 'call him out' on any parenting behaviour there would be massive defensiveness and if I did it in front of the DCs Big Trouble.

The nickname is just because I looooooove walking. I did used to get out every day with the children but now not so much. ( see comment re bikes above ) A friend and I are planning to walk the coast to coast route next year (St Bees on west coast to Robin hoods bay on the east)

dreaming thinking of you and your sis, hope you feel better after seeing her.

Mandbaby congratulations!!! Also thanks for the reminder that they grow so quickly and you just couldn't imagine ever shouting at them when they're tiny.

Dreaming hope your sister is getting better quickly.

Bertie hope your ds had a great birthday

News from the Plastic house - had a brilliant weekend!! Been trying to give lots of descriptive praise and not sure if it's a total coincidence or a miracle cure, but ds has been lovely: well natured and well behaved almost the whole weekend!!! I can't believe it

Ds even said to dh 'mummy is being really nice to me, saying lots of nice things to me & I can tell she is trying really hard not to shout'. Truth is I haven't had to try not to shout as apart from a small homework blip (nowhere near as bad as usual!) he has been an angel!! I do feel bad that the difference in me is that noticeable to a 10yo though - I really have been getting it wrong.. & blaming him

This is what my brain feels like tonight:

DD. Oh my. We have some ongoing issues, such as getting into the car (yep that one again) and the fact that given her way, she wouldn't actually finish any meal but would nibble at a constant supply of whatever she sees or pops into her head, before discarding the rest of the 'big one' portion and moving onto the next. Obviously this isn't going to happen, which provides a pretty consistent source of tension. She's also started issuing demands: "Do IT. RIGHT NOW ". Seriously. WTF.

And the tantrums.

The tantrums.

She is also super clingy. Which isn't like her, so there's obviously something going on under the surface.

I'm just trying to give her as much love and attention as possible without caving in to whichever ridiculous demand I'm supposed to be complying to.

Eventually she went to sleep. Then me and DH reasonably let go of some of the tension by having a ridiculous argument about something to do with the toilet.

I'm now watching YouTube and trying to find my happy place

(positive: DS is being a star at the moment)

me me me....

Bertie did your DS have a good day? Your plan for the day sounded lovely :)

LetsGo I really need to try to remember to make the most of this stage, while they still think we're pretty cool. Mean, but cool

PlasticCoat that is brilliant that you had such a positive weekend! AND it was noticed!

anothermonkey my 4 year old is having epic tantrums screaming at us "Do it now, I want my toy fixed/chocolate/cake!" Threatened to kick dh if he didn't superglue a broken toy on the spot.Shouts and screams or hits and kicks over so many things. I feel a bit desperate about it as I do expect a bit more. I know she's just turned 4 but 4 suddenly sounds like I should expect a bit more than this?! I've started turning her upside down and making it a game eg "dd. you are not having cake before tea. If you ask again I'll turn you upside down" Then she might start to smile and ask again of course to get turned upside down but it does St least make it clear it's not happening. I think I also give in to too many requests. I think limits need to be firmer here. yikes. Maybe they wouldn't keep pushing when I say no then?!

bertie hope your ds had a lovely 6th birthday.

plastic that's fantastic!

Hello everyone, I have been reading this thread and the previous one and am keen to join.

I have a Ds1 who is 4 and really empathize with the view that I expect more of his behaviour now. We still have the odd tantrum, unreasonable demands, not listening etc. It is reassuring to see other 4 year olds are similar and I think it is my expectations that are unrealistic and not so much his behaviour.

I also have 10 day old DD. Obviously no behaviour issues with her but I am tired and have my hands full - literally, am usually carrying her. DH is still around on pat leave and Ds is at school so things so far are manageable.

One of the additional 'diffivulties' with parenting for me is I also have a DS2 but he died very unexpectedly 10 months ago at the age of 11 months.

Parenting wise, DH and I have found it hard to remain engaged with Ds1 and this is something I want to try to change.

I also think I need support for this time, looking after 2 dc again. I found it ok with both Ds though I did lose my rag excessively with ds1 a few times. I know how full on it can be and I have to manage that alongside my grief for ds2. And I don't want ds2's death to impact even more negatively on ds1 and DD.

Sorry for long me me me post - just wanted to introduce myself. Am on my phone - will prob post again during a night feed!

mrpop I am so, so sorry to hear about what you've been through, I can't imagine. A massive welcome to the thread.

dreaming I know exactly what you mean about expectations at four. I found myself thinking that a lot about DS. Then when he turned five, I felt a real sense of disappointment that the magic switch to better behaviour didn't seem to happen as promised. Thing is, a couple of months later, things have calmed down a bit. He has actually grown up quite a lot all of a sudden.

moresnow it's funny isn't it... There are some things they come out with which are definitely from me and make me . I have no idea where she's got this one from though - it's funny and dreadful all at once! Turning it into a game/tickle sometimes works and sometimes makes her even crosser...