I think there is something 'wrong' with my 3year old.

[Onlyhappywhenitrains]

He's 3.2 and has always been more difficult than any of my friends' children. Poor eater, sleeper etc. he fits the profile of a spirited child in many ways.

But I can't help feeling there's more than that. He's very babyish in some ways for his age, has poor concentration span, extremely defeatist with a very negative attitude towards any new experience. Won't try if he thinks he can't do something and gets very easily and quickly frustrated. He spends a lot of his day whining in a high pitched tone. If for example he is building a tower and it topples rather than trying again he will just start to tantrum and shriek. He is extremely competitive, everything is a competition and if he loses there is the same result. Massive tantrum, sulk and high pitched whining. Won't join in with children his own age but will happily play with adults and older children. I suspect he isn't very bright and will struggle academically and possibly socially also. He won't dress himself but can get undressed, he can't or won't do jigsaw puzzles (even four pieces), he won't draw so his pencil grip is awful. He will have a stab at writing his name (only three letters) but isn't that interested and prefers to just stab aggressively at the paper. He is aggressive with toys and shakes and bangs them for no reason. He has a thing about textures and will stroke walls, pavements etc when we are out.

He starts nursery in September so I suppose they will pick up if he needs some extra support. He is so immature though that I don't know how he will cope. Next to children his own age he seems about a year behind.

Maybe a bit extra whingy & competitive, but overall in other respects (developmentally) exactly like mine (mostly NT & bright even).

You really need some feedback from nursery. They won't diagnose anything, but they will tell you if he's obviously unusual.

The competitive thing is a pain, DS2 is ultra competitive & immature for age. I think he's at the normal end of some disorder or another. It's harder that, if your lad is that immature, he's at the younger end of the school year. DS2 is about to become one of the youngest boys in a mixed yr class (sigh). I am bemused by WHO thought that was a good idea. The older girls will loathe him.

We had friend's daughter over to play today, she is six months older than ds. The gap between them is huge. Absolutely huge. I wish ds had another year before starting school, rather than starting at just four. I am starting him just two mornings a week at nursery.
I am trying to teach him that you cant always win and that's ok, but not getting very far!

If you work backwards do you think he's always been behind developmentally or is there something that could be causing his issues like siblings? My 3yr old does a lot of screaming at his brothers because he's never really had his own space, he's extremely impatient and impulsive.
Has he had his 2yr HV check?

My 4yr old did very little drawing/painting till he started nursery, and didn't seem to enjoy it but he's picked it up very well, and now loves drawing and writing.

Ok, I'm gonna be blunt, my ds2 is exactly same age and is nt, he does less than your child in terms of undressing and writing.

Your post is horribly negative, you have said he'll struggle at school, isn't bright - maybe he gets frustrated or won't try because he can sense how uptight you are about him achieving? Why does it matter how many pieces of jigsaw he does?

He has no siblings. He is ok at sharing with other children and will play with children older than him (6 and up). He just does really random things, he still doesn't sleep and he is extremely demanding pretty much 24 hours a day. No, I don't like him much at the moment.

And no it doesn't matter about jigsaws specifically, he just doesn't seem to be interested in things that other children of his age are interested in.

Language wise, do you feel he is where he ought to be for his age? I wouldn't rely on nursery to pick up on any special needs etc, bearing in mind that waiting lists can be long it may be worth talking to HV/GP at this point (tho you are unfortunately likely to be taken more seriously if you say nursery have concerns...)

I suspect that you are feeling negative about him partly because he is v demanding and doesn't sleep well. If you can improve the sleep, then hopefully you and he will be happier.

What you describe re:writing/drawing really sounds neither here nor there, not remotely worrying for his age btw.

When ds was three he would play alongside other children, not with them.
When ds was three he would not hold a pen or pencil, let alone write or draw.
When ds was three he had no interest in books.
When ds was three he was terrible at sharing.
When ds was three and not doing any of these things the girl next door (few months older) was writing, reading, drawing, etc.

Ds will be 13 in two days' time.
He has a large number of friends but still prefers his own company. I think this is a great trait and am happy so long as he is happy.
He is doing well at school, is first (top) set for maths, science, ict at a large well performing secondary school. He is in the second set (out of 6) for all other subjects, so again doing very well.
He is a keen reader, currently empyting our local library of all teen-crime type books. (he is also sharing these with friends / borrowing each other's books)
He is fab at sharing, very generous.
The girl next door levelled off academically around Y4 (they have gone to school together all their lives) and ds started to come into his own academically around Y4) They are now in the same sets at secondary school. Just goes to show early comparisons between children are useless

I think what you are describing sounds like a typical 3 year old. I fear you are comparing him negatively and he may be picking up on it.
It is far too soon for you to determine that he is 'not very bright'.

Ds was bottom sets and had TA assistance at primary school until Y4 when suddenly it 'clicked' / he had matured and he just took off and off. At the same time some early bloomers levelled off a bit and they all ended up at the same level more or less
The shrieking / whining I can't help you with. Ds has never done this. But I suspect it is your ds's frustration at not being able to do something. He is obviously very keen and a bit hard on himself (dare I say picking up on your vibes of comparing him negatively with other children)

Remember, he is only three. No one expects him to write his name. Let him make mud pies, he will mature and blossom when he is ready

Ok, having worked with many 3 year olds and had two of my own, he sounds perfectly normal. Some 3 year olds can do loads, others can do very little. The 'typical' range at this age is enormous! Try not to worry so much and concentrate on what he can do. Enjoy your boy for the child he is. He will most probably catch up with the things he finds difficult and if he doesn't, his teachers should flag it up. But honestly, he sounds fine.

hi onlyhappy, two boys with delays here (primarily their understanding of language). Both doing well now though one is still quirky.

I agree with you completely, it sounds as though there is more to this than being spirited. Of course, that doesn't mean it won't get better.

How much have you researched already - do you already have a sense of what may be going on? When DS2 was 3.2, I pretty much wanted to test out the views I already held......

You're being as positive as one can be after three years' sleep deprivation, and I suspect the sleep thing is priority number one for both you and DS.

Language is pretty good, although some of the sounds are still not clear to others.
He just doesn't seem like other children. I can't even exactly pinpoint why. It's partly how frustrated he gets, I've never known a child like it and it is partly his lack of willingness to try anything new. He seems overwhelmed in new situations and so misbehaves and whines.

I really know that feeling of not liking your child at the end of a hard, hard day. And my own ds2 is a shocking sleeper, although not as bad as you describe.

Could you list what he can do? And what makes him smile?

hope you don't mind me hazarding some suggestions:

*he may share nicely and play well with older children/adults because the rules are more obvious then. "Sharing" is based on strict rules. Adults and older children are already able to adjust their behaviour to his.

*his senses may be less balanced out, or less well integrated, for his age than those of most children. google "Sensory Integration and the Child".

*he may be fairly good at talking, but he might not "get" some of what is said to him, or he might miss signals that are unsaid but totally obvious to many other kids (body language, facial expressions, subtle gestures).

Is any of this ringing any bells?

And have you eliminated the obvious - glue ear? Has he had a hearing test?

It gets better, so much better, when you have a sense of what's going on and why. Then you can go back down the mountain to where your child is, and climb back up together....

He is ok at sharing with children his own age, taking turns etc. He sometimes gets pushed out actually by other children less willing to wait their turns (eg on a slide).
He can hear fine I think, although has selective hearing! He doesn't miss much. He will try and hug other children or sometimes grab hold of them to try and make them do what he wants and he doesn't seem to listen when they object. He always looks surprised when I tell him to stop because the other child doesnt like it.
He's pretty sensitive to what other people say to him, extremely actually and latches onto anything negative like a dog with a bone.
He doesn't like loud noises and doesn't cope well in situations that aren't structured.

He doesn't really fit being on the spectrum in a lot of ways, which is why I wondered if he was just immature and not very able.

It does sound like your expectations are quite high, though. To pick up on just one or two - having even a stab at writing his name at 3.2 years of age is impressive. My DD can write her own name legibly and without help at 4.5 years, but at 3.2 she didn't know or recognise a single letter and neither did I expect her to.

3-year-olds not liking new experiences is absolutely par for the course. Ditto the screaming with frustration if things don't go his way, and the finding playing with other children his own age difficult.

I don't want to dismiss your concerns, but it does sound to me like you are holding him to an extremely and probably unrealistically high standard of behaviour for a 3.2 year old, and if he has picked up on that you may have ended up in a downward cycle of negative interactions.

I'd probably like him more if he bloody slept. He would probably be less whingy if he slept. And ate properly. It is a vicious circle.

"I'd like him more if he slept" :( poor boy.

What have you done to try and encourage better sleep? What foods does he like?

My two are bad sleepers. My eldest is 2.10 and very fussy. Both have reflux and food intolerances which impact on their sleep.

I think if a parent has real concerns they should always be taken seriously, it oils be worth asking for an assessment I think.

It would, don't know where 'oils' came from there

yeah, I think it's worth marching to the HV/GP on the sleep thing alone at 3. good luck.

To me, he doesn't sound particularly immature or not able, he does seem to do things many 3yos do. My own ds2 has been weeping for an hour, had a tantrum over hair washing, snatched some toys today, was quite rough at points with his toys. All very annoying but really normal. Ds2 also pushed another kid over today because he was trying to physically move him even tho the boy and I both said he didn't want to.

He might just find things a bit much, which would then bring out the worst in him?

The hv keeps promising to refer us to a sleep specialist but nothing so far. Bad nights he is up 5-7 times a night. Goes to sleep ok but wakes over and over and over again.
We have tried pretty much everything we can think of, out of ideas really. Somedays I am so tired I can't think straight. We won't have another dc largely because of the sleep problem (couldn't cope with another like ds) and yes, I do resent him. Exhaustion is ruining my life!

Over tired and then whingy child is difficult, but needs you tohelp sort it.
Does not have to start school until he is 5

I have no idea if he is on the spectrum, of course, but you say in many ways he doesn't seem like he is..what ways?