I think there is something 'wrong' with my 3year old.

[Onlyhappywhenitrains]

He's 3.2 and has always been more difficult than any of my friends' children. Poor eater, sleeper etc. he fits the profile of a spirited child in many ways.

But I can't help feeling there's more than that. He's very babyish in some ways for his age, has poor concentration span, extremely defeatist with a very negative attitude towards any new experience. Won't try if he thinks he can't do something and gets very easily and quickly frustrated. He spends a lot of his day whining in a high pitched tone. If for example he is building a tower and it topples rather than trying again he will just start to tantrum and shriek. He is extremely competitive, everything is a competition and if he loses there is the same result. Massive tantrum, sulk and high pitched whining. Won't join in with children his own age but will happily play with adults and older children. I suspect he isn't very bright and will struggle academically and possibly socially also. He won't dress himself but can get undressed, he can't or won't do jigsaw puzzles (even four pieces), he won't draw so his pencil grip is awful. He will have a stab at writing his name (only three letters) but isn't that interested and prefers to just stab aggressively at the paper. He is aggressive with toys and shakes and bangs them for no reason. He has a thing about textures and will stroke walls, pavements etc when we are out.

He starts nursery in September so I suppose they will pick up if he needs some extra support. He is so immature though that I don't know how he will cope. Next to children his own age he seems about a year behind.

It is very tough, I know.

Please look at my suggestion and let me know what you think

Thanks chandon I haven't but I will. I've read 'The Spirited Child' one - it didn't quite fit ds1 though for a lot of it as he tends to be at the heart of his personality, quite compliant, bizarrely. He just seems to be very emotional and this is the crux,I think, to why he acts the way he does.

Tbh I don't know what suggest sleepwise, I feel like things have improved now dd1 only needs one of us to go in and give her a quick cuddle 3 or 4 times a night!

Reading the book currently chandon about halfway through!

Co sleeping doesnt work because if he will then want to chat. All night. And sing. And jump on the bed. Me being there is another stimulus. Just going in and saying shhhh sends his back off to sleep. If I stay any longer he will start to chatter and then won't go back to sleep. He doesn't want to sleep next to me anyway, he never has, apart from when he was really small and would then only sleep on his stomach on my tummy.

It makes me sad. I feel like something was stolen from me. All my friends have loved the newborn baby stage and the first year or so. They describe their babies as perfect, beautiful, amazing etc. I've never liked to say what I thought of mine. I know if could be a lot worse, ds is healthy which is the main thing. And I know not everyone has an easy ride either, but I just feel sad about it. When I look back on those early days they are very very dark indeed.

I had to give him the quietest room, bought black out curtains, we spend about an hour doing bath, teeth, story and little chat to get him to be properly calm, he sleeps with and old nighty of mine, which he needed and needs to help him settle.

He was a "difficult" baby and a very frustrated tot, he still feels things strongly, gets overwhelmed, cannot cope with crowds or too much noise, or too much fun ( theme parks etc), people being unfair etc.

Friends always say he seems to feel things so deeply, he is a bit intense in a way.

But things have progressively gotten better. I have had to be very patient though, dh almost " gave up" at times. He s fussy about food, labels, smells too.

Reading about Highly sensitive children made me realise I and he are not alone.

It does require some managining though. He is 9 year old now who likes chess and fishing and quiet pursuits, though he is better about parties now, hurrah

Oh, OP, its hard sometimes. Its ok to find it hard.

Onlyhappy, my dh feels so much guilt about exactly that, we cannot talk about those early years...

I feel we have made up for it though, and we don t really blame ourselves any more. We did not know what to do, we were young and clueless.

We have a very good loving relationship with oldest ds now, but a bit of guilt remains. Try to ditch it though. As parents all you can do is your best.

To be yourself is all that you can do.

lots of people on the special needs board found weighted blankets helpful.

re spectrum: Maybe he doesn't have ASD but he may still have sensory issues at the root of this (especially connected with touch).

wishing you sleepfilled nights.

Hmm, in that case I wonder if there might be something wrong with your choice of friends!! I'm not being entirely serious, but partly. If all your friends describe their babies as perfect and having loved the newborn stage, they are either very very very lucky, or lying. Because all of my friends, like me, were half-demented with lack of sleep for much of the first year of our children's lives at least, and we were all open and honest about how hard it was and how ambivalent we felt about our lives being blasted apart. Not that some didn't enjoy it more than others, but no-one, and I mean no-one, pretended it was a bed of roses.

Is it still like that now? I read about what felt like your very high expectations earlier and I wonder if you're comparing your DS to friends' children who are perhaps slightly older girls? and/or if you have friends who have a tendency to hide away the more, erm, difficult elements of their kids' characters?

Again, I'm not suggesting that you don't have real concerns, and lack of sleep is clearly at the top of the list, but still, adjusting your expectations slightly to the reality of most 3-year-olds and their behaviour might help you tackle his demands with less despair, in the knowledge that you are not alone?

I understand exactly how you feel, I've been there, and I really feel for you.

Tiredness made the sleep issue worse, so we tried earlier nights for a while, and it did help a bit, as she wasn't overtired when going to bed.

re the jigsaws thing- have you had his sight checked? We found out that our youngest was so long-sighted he couldn't actually see pictures on jigsaws or books- his specs have made an enormous difference to his life.

My ds1 sounds very similar, though he has always been quite social around other children, the sleep, eating, screeching, flying off handle are all similar. He was quite a difficult baby. He is still very strong willed but has just finished reception year and is doing really really well. I think you should look for the positives in your son, don't pigeon hole him as not very bright at this age. I wouldn't expect a 3.2 boy to have the pencil control to write his name. My son only got interested in drawing and crafts once he got a bit of pencil control and that was well into YR. most of the boys in his class are the same. I read somewhere that the best things to encourage fine motor control are to strengthen all muscles in the arms, so things like wheelbarrow races, Climbing trees, playing in playground are all great, and stuff that 3yos should be doing!

My ds1 still wakes in the night, I never look at the clock and just cuddle him back to sleep as quickly as possible. I go to him as soon as he wakes, so he doesn't rouse too much. He always used to wake screeching, til I asked him not to and he now just shouts "mummy!" quite politely, much better! I always start the day with a cup of coffee!

I realise that shouting at him doesn't work with ds1, but it's so hard to keep my own cool at times. But he responds better to logic and if he's losing it, its best to 'cuddle it out' and then talk about why he ended up like that. He has to eat regularly, go to sleep at regular times otherwise he endds up a nightmare.

Encourage the imaginative play (it's a big asset, a good imagination) and try I look for the positives in your son rather than dwelling on all the negatives, and please, don't expect too much of him at this age. If he doesn't like arts and crafts or puzzles, do something else.

Of course I can't say a lot based on just a few posts on an internet forum, but it feels to me you don't have a strong connection with him.

You have very high expectations of him (perfect babies? friends who loved the whole first year? The first year is HARD. It has great things, but it's bloody hard. Adjusting to life with a baby is not easy at all, and I don't believe most people would say it was lovely. And LOTS of marriages go through a tough bit, it's perfectly normal).

People here are just telling you most of what your DS does is perfectly normal, you should believe it.

When he tantrums, try to put yourself in his place, frustrated. No one likes to feel frustrated, why should he be different? I don't like the idea of distracting the child. Specially is he's at home, let him scream for as long as he needs. He is processing his feelings, he needs time to do it. While he does it, be there for him. Sit beside him and wait.

Observe him more. When you play with him, do you try to lead him, or give suggestions of the "best" way to do something? Why don't you just observe him and let him lead the way? (most adults find that very difficult, my DH is one of them! He just itches to show DS the "right" way to do things).

I may be off the mark, of course, but I think you both could benefit a lot if you tried to understand how he feels and put yourself in his place from time to time. And definitely lower your expectations. Children are hard work, they have always been, and they are supposed to be!

I may be way off the mark here - but do you spend a lot of time playing with him? Could part of it be that he needs time playing on his own to figure out what to do?

You need to sort something out where you get a nights sleep every week, regardless of your son. Can you go to your mum's now and then, and get DH to settle him, or does it have to be you? When I only had one child it had to be me - now I have two either parent will do.

By the way, my 4.5yo will not write or hold a pen. She has no interest in reading or numbers, and can't make a tower, ride a bike, or scoot as well as her 2yo sister.

I can't say I don't worry, because we all worry, but I think she has different interests (she likes gardening and playing outside, and she arranges her dolls and makes dens out of blankets) so I don't get upset that she can't do particular things. I suspect she is quite bright.

One other tip I read on here was one night a week go to bed as soon as you can (so when DH gets home from work), so you have had a few hours sleep when DS starts waking up. I know you have said DH works away from home a lot, but maybe you need to ask him to do more at specific times to help. By this I mean that my DH has to pull his finger out on Friday nights, so I can do something else. I still bath them, but he puts them to bed, so I can have a few hours off. I don't necessarily ask him to do more household tasks - I think they can wait.

Have a dS aged 3.10
Have you had yours at home all the time?
Sounds like he could benefit from nursery where they channel this stuff, ie they are forced to share, tidy up, be nice, manners etc. my nursery just held an 5 day Olympics, dS took this very seriously and competitively, although they all won gold for everything he really enjoyed trying to win everything. They do stuff like this all the time. Also really tires then out so they sleep well. Plus they get taught letters, sounds. Dunno think your DS sounds normal, maybe a bit bored and could benefit from an environment where he has to do the things you would like (ie try writing) and get on with it without a fuss.

Am all for discipline and structure! Send 'em into the army I say (joke )

Ok I'm going to throw a wild suggestion but I reckon he has food intolerances. I have refluxy babies and remember it well. Low point was dd waking every 20 mins then having to get up in the morning and look after toddler DS as well after such nights.

You say he likes milk? Loves it? This can be a sign he's dairy intolerant - the body craves foods it shouldn't. Odd but true. Is he windy? I've read too that dairy can cause behavioural problems in intolerant kids (although not sure how reliable the sources are!)

I'd cut all dairy and soya (similar to cows milk)out of his diet for one week just to be sure. Switch to calcium enriched oat milk for now. Keep his diet bland - small amounts of fruit and veg (portion should be size of his palm), easy proteins and carbs. Spoonful of peppermint or camomile after tea to ease digestion.

See what happens after a week.

I was dubious about food intolerances but now I've experienced it first hand, I'm a firm believer it's worth considering.

Ok I'm going to throw a wild suggestion but I reckon he has food intolerances. I have refluxy babies and remember it well. Low point was dd waking every 20 mins then having to get up in the morning and look after toddler DS as well after such nights.

You say he likes milk? Loves it? This can be a sign he's dairy intolerant - the body craves foods it shouldn't. Odd but true. Is he windy? I've read too that dairy can cause behavioural problems in intolerant kids (although not sure how reliable the sources are!)

I'd cut all dairy and soya (similar to cows milk)out of his diet for one week just to be sure. Switch to calcium enriched oat milk for now. Keep his diet bland - small amounts of fruit and veg (portion should be size of his palm), easy proteins and carbs. Spoonful of peppermint or camomile after tea to ease digestion.

See what happens after a week.

I was dubious about food intolerances but now I've experienced it first hand, I'm a firm believer it's worth considering.

Thank you everyone.
Perhaps I will speak to my hv again about the sleeping and mention the food intolerance. He does love milk. Easily stinks two pints a day. Would drink more if he could. I'm also trying fish oils to see if that helps.
I play with him a lot and do allow him to lead, I only intervene really if his play becomes too aggressive or dangerous. I don't have much connection with him I suppose. I love him in a he's my son so I have to way but he often feels like a stranger. I have more connection with my goddaughter who I only see occasionally because I understand her. I don't understand why my son does the things he does, I find him relentless and difficult. Maybe nursery will be good for us both. I never feel proud of him and wish that I did. He has got up this morning and has already started to whine because his balloon has gone down overnight. It's driving me mad. On the plus side he was only up twice last night which is very good.

Drinks not stinks!

onlyhappy, I am sure things will get better. They did for us. It has taken us years to understand and really know our son. Teachers still say he's an enigma, that now makes us laugh.

It is the hardest age. Again, reading about highly sensitive children may help you understand him better. eg www.hsperson.com/pages/test_child.htm

It also helps to try to accept him for what he is, his personality, instead of changing it. I did have a clear "no whining rule" and have had to be consistent in saying: "I cannot understand you in that voice, speak normally please" ad infinitum. It DID stop the whining!

Also, I have had chats (when he was a bit bigger) that it is O.K. to feel upset and frustrated, and normal, but that it does not justify bad behaviour (tantrums, whining, throwing things). He thought that feeling angry/sad was bad, so I really have had to let him know the emotions are normal and fine, but behaviour needs modifying.

My DS is just an introverted sort of child, with 1 best friend. Not the social extrovert which is the current day ideal.

Find out what makes him tick, find out what sets him off, and try to "manage" him as much as you can. And early bed time is crucial. There is still plenty of time to really get to know eachother. I have a very good relationship with my oldest son now, you will get there too!

All the best.

In the balloon situation, at that age, I would have said: "Oh no!!! That is so annoying!!! Blasted balloon! What a shame!". rather than "Don't whine, it is just a balloon" (not saying that's what you said! I remember it helped him if I showed I understood his frustration. then move on to something else)

All the things you describe about the whining sound like my dds exactly, and most of my friends dcs tbh. It is just that age (well in dd1's case, maybe more of a personality trait!)

I might be completely out of order, and please ignore me if i am, but some of your feelings sound a lot more about you than your ds.

You talk about the first year so negatively and about having no connection with your son, have you ever had PND?

Have you tried white noise OP? Quite possibly, as you seem to have given most everything a go, but wanted to mention it anyway. We still use it with our DS at 21mo because even though we co-sleep he is still a poor sleeper. It seems to help.

Interestingly, he has some of the sensory things you mention - running his hands along surfaces for eg. Mine's also very sensitive to some types of noise (cried the other day when I pretended to be a horse and said 'neigh!' in a high-pitched voice).

Just also wanted to say that IMO criticising OP for her attitude to her child is missing the point completely. Sleep deprivation is fucking TORTURE. It changes your entire personality and strips you of your emotional resilience and patience. Takes away any joy. I was diagnosed with PND when my son was younger - which magically lifted when his sleep made an improvement. If I was in OP's position after THREE years (!!), I would be pretty negative too.

OP, have you been assessed for depression? Even if the underlying cause is your DS's bad sleep, you may find it prompts people to offer you the help you need more swiftly. You may also find new ways to help manage your feelings until you can get you DS's sleep sorted.

Could someone (friend, family) start having your DS one night every 1-2 weeks so that you could get some proper rest?

Honestly if all the sleep training methods haven't worked coupled with him being a refluxy baby etc I'd be reading into food intolerances. Reducing the amount of dairy can be done without cutting out - 2 pints a day is too much as it is.

Onlyhappy - I did not like my children when they were babies or toddlers much either. Now the are nearly 8 and 9, I love spending time with them.

Neither of them conform to ideas of what is "normal". Dd (just coming up to 8) sounds most like your son. She can whinge for England, does not sleep that well, appears not to try at things she doesn't understand, holds herself aloof from others. No problem solving ability and cannot follow complex intructions. We too wondered if she was not too bright and what might be wrong.

At the recommendation of her school, she was seen by a peadiatrician and an Ed pysch. Their conclusion? She was above average across the board - not brilliant, but far from daft either and with no discernible learning difficulties. What then is the problem we wondered? Their best guess, to my eternal shame, was us and I share this with you only so that you do not find yourself in the same position.

Ds is brilliant (stonkingly high IQ and about 5 years ahead of his peers). For whatever reason, they believe that dd feels that she cannot compete with ds and cannot meet our expectations so it is better not to try. She pretends that she cannot do things (and may even believe this) so she does not have to deal with failure. I do not understand clearly how we ended up here and how I have made my beautiful, talented daughter feel like this, but how I wish I could wind the clock back.

I can see that you have sleep issues which make things harder for you and I have no advice how to solve these, but what I would say is to make sure that you celebrate the positives as much as you can and embrace all the things your son can do lest you find yourself one day on my position.