I think there is something 'wrong' with my 3year old.

[Onlyhappywhenitrains]

He's 3.2 and has always been more difficult than any of my friends' children. Poor eater, sleeper etc. he fits the profile of a spirited child in many ways.

But I can't help feeling there's more than that. He's very babyish in some ways for his age, has poor concentration span, extremely defeatist with a very negative attitude towards any new experience. Won't try if he thinks he can't do something and gets very easily and quickly frustrated. He spends a lot of his day whining in a high pitched tone. If for example he is building a tower and it topples rather than trying again he will just start to tantrum and shriek. He is extremely competitive, everything is a competition and if he loses there is the same result. Massive tantrum, sulk and high pitched whining. Won't join in with children his own age but will happily play with adults and older children. I suspect he isn't very bright and will struggle academically and possibly socially also. He won't dress himself but can get undressed, he can't or won't do jigsaw puzzles (even four pieces), he won't draw so his pencil grip is awful. He will have a stab at writing his name (only three letters) but isn't that interested and prefers to just stab aggressively at the paper. He is aggressive with toys and shakes and bangs them for no reason. He has a thing about textures and will stroke walls, pavements etc when we are out.

He starts nursery in September so I suppose they will pick up if he needs some extra support. He is so immature though that I don't know how he will cope. Next to children his own age he seems about a year behind.

TheTerhagentToaster - I don't think it is criticising the op to say that she needs to find a way of finding some positives in her ds, rather than blaming him, which is the way some of her posts come across.

Sleep deprivation is torture, but sometimes when all other avenues have been explored you have to work out the ways to get everyone the maximum amount asleep (this is obviously just my opinion!). We have somehow managed to maintain a shred of sanity through a combination of co sleeping (with ds - dd1 was a nightmare to sleep with), sleeping in the same room sometimes, dh and I going to bed early, or napping at the weekends etc. It is not ideal, but sometimes there is just no choice, and when you get to that point when you start to resent your child for their poor sleeping, then you really have to try and get a plan (of sorts!)

Sorry for the rambly post - admittedly today I have had to have few extra coffees to keep going!!

Hi
I have left another message for my hv today regarding the sleep. I do think that is the main problem for both of us.
We have had a better day today, possibly because ds slept a bit better last night. He is also obviously affected by the lack of sleep which probably makes the frustration and whining worse.

Thanks again for all suggestions.

Hi onlyhappy How are you getting on? Has the HV spoken to you yet?

We had a bad day today. The day started with unexplained crying (well, it was cries of "I didn't see daddy at the WIINNNNDDDDOOOOW!" - he sometimes is obsessive about waving dh off to work) and melded into an inability to even speak. The day continued with a visit to a playfarm where ds whinged and cried and pushed his way through the morning. We then went to a friend's house in the afternoon where ds clashed with my friend's ds continually and behaved appallingly (pushing, dramatic crying and shouting at my friend's ds he wasn't his friend anymore) .

Everything is a battle - from getting dressed, to eating, to social behaviour to noise levels, to everything really. I'm exhausted. I love him to death but he worries me so much sometimes that his behaviour is just too much 'more'.

Hi mrtumble waiting on the hv, I know from experience it will take at least three messages before she calls me back. I left another one with the dr yesterday when I popped in for a prescription.

Yesterday wasn't so good but today was a bit better, although ds did have a meltdown over being too little to ride the next door neighbour's bike (he's 10) and no matter how often I said 'you'll be big enough one day, he's much older than you, you've got your bike' it didn't matter. We had several verses of 'I'll never be big enough, I can never ride a bike' followed up with a few choruses of 'no bike for me, I'm too small, I can't do it.' accompanied by screaming and crying. Painful.
I know what you mean by describing the behaviour as 'so much more.' everything is a battle with ds too. And he seems to take everything very personally and to heart. Mind you, some of it is for effect Im sure. During the bike sulk this afternoon he also said 'I'm too little. Poor me. Woe is me. I'm so small.'

Sorry to hear of your bad day. Hope you've had a better day today!

Sorry OP but that made me - I don't think your DS is playing you, he's just copying something he's heard "woe is me" (!) and applying it. DS does this. Where did he learn that phrase?

He def sounds tired - DS gets like that. He was in tears yesterday because he couldn't go upstairs with DH Then because we wouldn't let him take a buggy out for a walk (he'd missed a nap).

I hope the HV helps with the sleep issue - do try cutting out dairy for a short period. You sound pretty miserable and like you're projecting intent onto your DS where there is none.

I sometimes say 'woe is you' to him when he says something like 'I've only had one ice cream,' it usually makes him laugh! He says it back to me if I sometimes.
Me: I haven't got enough pennies to buy that DS.
DS: woe is you mummy.

It is for effect sometimes because he will drop his shoulders, head and lower lip and say 'oh sulk.' If we don't respond he will say 'I'm SULKING.' just so we aren't in any doubt. It usually makes me laugh, although I try not to show it!

Without meaning to dismiss the developmental/behavioural issues that are concerning you, I can't help feeling that the terrible sleeping might be the main problem here.

I think that people who haven't experienced it directly don't/can't really understand how much sleep deprivation (and the resultant perma-exhaustion) can utterly poison your life. Our DD has finally progressed, at 3.8, to being an okayish sleeper, but for much of her short little life she was just awful. I remember all too well her waking up 7 times a night, every night, for months and months and months. Then she'd sleep better for a few weeks, then, often for no apparent reason, she'd be back to multiple wakings. Until she could talk well, she'd often scream, shout and protest, sometimes for hours at a time in the night. Until very recently, she'd be up for the day at 5, or 5.30 if we were lucky, even when she'd been up several times in the night. Her tiredness often made her horrible in the daytime, but she'd fight naps tooth and nail. The effect it had on my and DH's relationship, my work, moods, concentration, sociability, temper, ability to drive or indeed get anything done at all was profound, and distressing.

I smiled in recognition at your post 'Co sleeping doesn't work, sleeping next to him on floor doesn't work, going in and soothing him and coming back out doesn't work, ignoring him doesn't work, gro clock doesn't work, soothing nightlight doesn't work, pitch black doesn't work, calming bedtime bath and massage doesn't work' - exactly. We did all these things too, and as for your DS, they made no difference. I think the only thing that did make a difference in the end is time/DD growing up a bit, which is of no use to you - I don't think you can wait for that to happen, especially if you're dealing with the sleep problems on your own. I've been lucky in that DH has shared the nights/getting up almost since day 1 - I really have no idea how I would have coped otherwise, and I am full of admiration that you haven't completely cracked up shouldering the burden alone. You must pester your HV/GP/anyone who might be able to help until you get some help. I'm sure you've considered it, but if you have the funds, could you employ a sleep clinic/consultant? We used Millpond, who while they didn't miraculously fix things, did help to improve them. Or if you post in 'Sleep', I know people will be able to recommend individual consultants.

With regard to the things you mention in your OP, while DD does love jigsaws and drawing, she sounds like your DS in that she gets very easily frustrated and VERY cross with things like towers falling down, she's a terrible loser (but what child isn't at the age of 3?!), and she can sulk and whine for England. But as others have said, I'm sure they (your DC and mine) are both normal - the spectrum of behaviour and development at this age is huge. I think it's just very hard to cope with challenging behaviour when you're knackered (stating the obvious, sorry!) so that to a well-rested parent, a child is 'spirited', while to an exhausted one, they're a difficult PITA. I too have wasted spent much time over the years worrying about whether DD's behaviour is 'normal' (she is stubborn, has a will of iron, fearless, can throw a spectacular tantrum, has been (and occasionally still is) violent, and just generally likes to impose herself on the world) but have come to the conclusion that that's just how she is. I'm hoping that as she grows up and learns to moderate her behaviour, her strong personality will take her far in life (and not just into trouble )

Good luck to you - I know things will get better, and I hope you can find the people who can help you make that happen, and quickly. Keep us posted about how you get on. I will be thinking of you.

Haven't read all the way through as the children are on their 4th fight of the day already but noticed you said that he was a poor sleeper and eater. Does he get a lot of colds? DS1 had huge tonsils that were stopping him sleeping leading to tears if anything was "too hard". Made a world of difference once they were taken out and he could sleep still has his moments though. We had loads of drs dismissing tonsils as they were not obviously infected but when they operated they found they blocked his throat when he lay down and stopped his breathing. I feel a bit sad looking back on photos of him when he was little- he looks exhausted in them and I remember how exhausted I felt as well which did not make me the most patient mother to deal with his tantrums.

As for the not writing /drawing. DS1 didn't do that either- He did his first recognisable face about 6 months ago at 5- I was so excited! But he is a good reader and very good at maths and problem solving. Overall he is is well above average. I have found it hard to judge how good he is at things as he is very different to me as a child and I didn't have any other children to compare him with. Like reading- he is very good at it according to his teacher- right at the top of the class. But I didn't think he was doing very well just because I started reading at 2 and was on proper novels by 5. I just had a skewed idea of what normal was.

I hope you manage to get some help with the sleep as that is probably making everything else feel a thousand times worse than it is.

Similar to spiffy, I wondered whether he's been looked at for sleep aponoea? I know of some children where this has caused multiple night wakings (and restless sleep). Sometimes it has been linked with reflux (and sometimes tongue tie).

I'd also second Iggly's suggestion of trying a short dairy-free (or reduced) diet. Intolerances and allergies can also lead to frequent waking patterns. The fact that he goes to sleep okay but then keeps waking suggests to me that it's less likely to be a 'normal' sleep association type issue.

Some of his behavior seems a little over the top. It could just be a rough transitory period, but if you really think something is wrong you should take him to see a developmental psychologist. It sounds like he is definitely having a lot of anxiety, if he has clinical anxiety that could explain the immaturity and fear to try new things, and an inability to lose or fail.

He reminds me of my DN, didn't sleep properly till 3.5yo and eventually it all sorted itself out, but like Iggle, I feel sorry for your DS. He must know that you "do resent him" for the moment/ sometimes and that your standards are horribly high. He must want to please you but pleasing you might be very difficult for him. Beware not to break his little heart...
My DS was a horrible sleeper and head strong, we just gave in a co slept all together. He sleeps marvellously well knowing we are about.

The kid is 3.1 (is that how you do it on here? I mean 37 months)

She is quite advanced (I think - as others have said, the 'range' is large at this age) She has been able to write her name for 8 months or so, can do jigsaws on her own up to 100 pieces, can do maths, knows all the letters in both cases and has a vocabulary containing words such as 'jib' 'tine' and 'chemistry' She has never been a whingey kid - but in the last month she has started to become one. We get the same sorts of things as you - she will "never be any good at roller skating" and "can't scoot and steer at the same time" and "is just whinging" and "isn't tall enough" whilst simultaneously being "too tall" She's "full up" and "is still hungry" - all in that whining voice kids can do.

It sounds to me like something three year olds do. My theory is that the pace of development has slackened a little at this age - she doesn't learn a totally new skill everyday anymore because she can do the major things, so it's all incremental now. I think sometimes she sees the world and sees herself and gets immensely frustrated that she cannot fully participate, if that makes sense? I guess it's something that's quite common from reading around.

The kid doesn't do it if she is stimulated though - it's all about data input at their age. Obviously this is great if you are doing something stimulating, but not so great when you want her to entertain herself when you wash up.

The kid is not, and never has been a great sleeper. I was having breakfast with her before 6 this morning - admittedly that is unusual, but she's normally up before 7. She just doesn't seem to need that much.