I think there is something 'wrong' with my 3year old.

[Onlyhappywhenitrains]

He's 3.2 and has always been more difficult than any of my friends' children. Poor eater, sleeper etc. he fits the profile of a spirited child in many ways.

But I can't help feeling there's more than that. He's very babyish in some ways for his age, has poor concentration span, extremely defeatist with a very negative attitude towards any new experience. Won't try if he thinks he can't do something and gets very easily and quickly frustrated. He spends a lot of his day whining in a high pitched tone. If for example he is building a tower and it topples rather than trying again he will just start to tantrum and shriek. He is extremely competitive, everything is a competition and if he loses there is the same result. Massive tantrum, sulk and high pitched whining. Won't join in with children his own age but will happily play with adults and older children. I suspect he isn't very bright and will struggle academically and possibly socially also. He won't dress himself but can get undressed, he can't or won't do jigsaw puzzles (even four pieces), he won't draw so his pencil grip is awful. He will have a stab at writing his name (only three letters) but isn't that interested and prefers to just stab aggressively at the paper. He is aggressive with toys and shakes and bangs them for no reason. He has a thing about textures and will stroke walls, pavements etc when we are out.

He starts nursery in September so I suppose they will pick up if he needs some extra support. He is so immature though that I don't know how he will cope. Next to children his own age he seems about a year behind.

Can I just say before anyone jumps on me, ds2 was spoken to and stopped, and when I say 'pushed' I mean being over enthusiastic in his cajoling, not a shove! He has also done nice things in between.

"When ds was three he would play alongside other children, not with them.
When ds was three he would not hold a pen or pencil, let alone write or draw.
When ds was three he had no interest in books.
When ds was three he was terrible at sharing.
When ds was three and not doing any of these things the girl next door (few months older) was writing, reading, drawing, etc."

Sounds like my DD at three. She achieved level 5s in her KS 2 SATS, is in the top sets for everything at high school and did well in her year 7 tests. Please don't worry.

I think you need to address the sleep and leave the rest. If you are up that much neither of you can be in the best mood to start with. Go to the gp and say the sleep is messing up family life and ask for help.

I think he sounds normal. Remember it's just a phase.
As a side note, if you want him to play / draw in a more focussed way try taking most of the toys away and rotating them in and out of use. When we moved house and didn't unpack all of the toys very quickly I did notice that my dc play much longer and in a more focussed way if they only have 1 or 2 toys to choose from. I think they might have been overwhelmed by the choice before. This is now my excuse reason for not getting them new toys. They play with the old toys which have been rotated back in as if they are new toys anyway so I don't feel too bad.

He is only 3, please do not write him off yet.

Maybe your expectations are too high or even a tad unrealstic?

That is what I got from your OP

Hello OP. the fact that you're so tired cannot be helping you at all. Is there any way that DS could stay over with granny/cousins so you can recharge? I promise everything looks so much better from the side of a good nights sleep.

Then tacke your HV re DS sleep problem. Could be many of if the tantrums stem from that. Will also help with concentration.

Many of his other traits sound similar to my DS now 5. It is likely that you might hear teachers over the next couple of years voice concerns. Try not to react like my and plunge into guilt ridden despair. I had to give myself a vicious slap and remember that they are trying to help us. Had all the tests, and it seems immaturity has lots to do with missing social cues (eg hugging kids when they really don't want it).

In essence watch and wait, but get whatever help you can to get sleep.

Good luck. You are not alone xx

What can I do though?? I genuinely don't know. Co sleeping doesn't work, sleeping next to him on floor doesn't work, going in and soothing him and coming back out doesn't work, ignoring him doesn't work, gro clock doesn't work, soothing nightlight doesn't work, pitch black doesn't work, calming bedtime bath and massage doesn't work.

fanjo he is very sociable, makes eye contact, adapts to change ok, empathises with characters in books / animals / other children most of the time, doesn't seem to have any obsessions.

I know there are some ways that he does fit the spectrum (textures, noises) but there seem to be more ways he doesn't than does.

teddy he probably does have too many toys. I am trying to rationalise them a bit! He isn't interested in any creative type toys at all though, painting or play doh etc are not popular.

Can only suggest: same bedtime every day, same routine, no TV etc 1 hour before bed, no chocolate in the afternoon, no sweets before bed, warm milk, stories, calming music/story CD on, sit in his room while he goes to sleep, if he messes about walk out and only come back if he settles down. Sorry if that is unhelpful.

yes I see what you mean, could just be some sensory issues then maybe?

The problem is if I go in to him he settles back down and goes to sleep but then is up again. And again and again. If ignored he will scream and scream and can keep going for hours. Three and a half hours is the record and we gave in before him. Dh is away about 50% of the time so Im on my own a lot with ds.

He has a settled bedtime routine and goes to sleep no problem, it is the repeated waking that's the problem.

i would definitely get that checked out to see if GP can help :)

Sympathies, DD is the same and it's very tiring

I do sympathise, DD1 could be horrendous at night at that age and it was only a short phase but it seemed to last forever at the time. We had some success with rewarding her for not waking us up in the night, giving stickers in the morning etc. Just giving lots and lots of praise when she got anything right really.

I have had sleep issues here. Your post on sleep mentions many techniques and I can hear the desperation. You need to find a way for you to get some sleep to get calm and capable. All the rest can wait. Stop worrying about playdoh etc, all kids have likes and dislikes.

when you say he doesn't sleep...what are you meaning...what sleep does he have over 24 hrs?....on average weekly....????

When does bedtime begin and how long does the process take before sleep comes to him?

What is the most effective routine you have found works best so far?

Lots of mum's here so tell us where you're at and I'll bet people will be able to impart their idea's that worked for them and give you some idea's to try....

With that level of waking I'd get gp to check him over in case there is a physical cause, if you haven't already.

Is his room too hot or cold at night? Does he throw his covers off & then get cold? Is there any pattern to his waking, could there be anything physical waking him such as noises outside? Is he able to communicate why he woke up, e.g. a bad dream or something. Sorry if you've thought of all this.

Thanks everyone.
He goes to bed at 7, has milk and story and a nightlight projector. Is reliably asleep by 7.30pm. He gets up around 7am but it is the continuous waking that is an issue. He is up again in the night before I've gone back to sleep. He usually sleeps 7.30 until 11.30 and that is the longest stretch of sleep. He is then up at 11.30, 1ish, 3ish, 4.30, 5.00 and finally around 7am for good. Some nights are more frequent night wakings, occasionally they are less. But not often. The light mornings have made it worse.

ooops...flippin thread had more pages...it didn't tell me...sorry...

Black out blinds would sort out the light nights thing at least.

Have got black out blinds but there is a tiny crack of light round the edge!

I've been through a sleep deprived couple of years. If DS2 was my first born I may not have considered a second child. We have come through it but still have the odd blip. You really need to push your GP or HV for help with the sleep issues. It can't be doing him any good waking so often. Does he nap in the day? If he does, then it's probably time to drop the nap as it could help him sleep more solidly at night. Pre-school will do him the world of good.

ok...light nights have made this worse...thats an easy solution

where are your water pipes running through your house?...are you adjacent to a neighbour?...where is their bathroom in relation to DC's room?....where is your water tank located in relation to your DC's bedroom....

central heating systems sometimes do cyclical system tests and it could be firing up...check timers and switch off completely at night to experiment with this one....

Kitchen in proximity to DC's bedroom?....is your fridge/freezer noisy when it cycles with it's thermostat, etc...their sound and vibration can be disturbing and they tend to go off fairly regularly too....when my fridge cycles it makes my toaster vibrate too hahahahaha....!!!

Have you tried puting a radio on low in the room...leaving it droning on some talk/light music channel....it would eliminate outside noises and become a 'tuned out' sound...a bit like living near a railway track...you get accustomed to the sound

No, he doesn't nap in the day. He often flags around 3ish but even a short nap pushes his bedtime back until 10pm so he doesn't nap anymore, just has a quiet time instead.