End of my tether !!! Boarding school for 5 year old ??

[scatterbrain]

Sorry to rant - but I really need some help here !!

My 5 yr old DD is driving me insane !!

Morning tantrums again !! Last two mornings she has had the most almighty tantrums about getting dressed - just refuses to ! Last night had a long talk with her about how this was very unhelpful to mummy and put me in a bad mood all day, and I have to drive to work and do my job etc etc - and she promised to be good this morning - but no - worse than ever ! We talked about doing a star chart - and she said she would be earning her star tomorrow !

When she was 2 she wouldn't let me help her dress - now she is 5 she apparently can't do it herself ! But she can - and she should at least make some effort !

She is usually fairly well behaved and very happy, and there haven't been any changes or traumas in her life that I know of - so I am a bit baffled really !

Anyway - short of sending her to boarding school or having her adopted - I REALLY don't think I can live like this anymore - have any of you wise ones got any tips ??

BTW - naughty step and being sent to her bedroom don't seem to work on this one - she just screams and screams and screams !

I always thought life was (at least potentially) a series of humiliations - especially at work! I really enjoy my work, and have a very supportive environment, but if there is something I have to do, and I don't do it, I know I run the risk of humiliation.
I do believe that intent is the key to abuse - ie intentionally not feeding your child is abuse, but forgetting to do so is neglect. So my mum gave me bowl hair cuts and made me wear my brother's clothes, but I know this was not because she intended to abuse me, she just is a bit of a puritan! I can't say I enjoyed it, or the teasing it brought, but it didn't make me feel unloved. In the same way the pjs at school issue is not because anyone here doesn't love their children. So you can say you don't think it is the best way to handle the situation, you can say there may be better ways, but unless the child is miserable and the parent enjoying that it surely cannot be called abuse.

Personally I am glad things have never got that far with my two (yet !), but pj's at the bus stop would probably be a step too far - especially in this weather!

Glad things were better today, scatterbrain.
I'm quite surprised to be thought of as mildly abusive but am managing to live with it. Didn't seem a big deal at the time and doesn't now. As they get older I am far less hung up about doing the right thing tbh. It's so clear when they're deeply hurt and when they're not.

If any of you are interested in positive parenting which doesn't involve humiliating experiences but DOES teach children about consequences of their own choices, may I suggest this title:

Children: The Challenge by Rudolf Dreikurs and Vicki Soltz

o.k,, i've only read a tiny bit up the thread but i am tota;;y with Alex's mum. I'd just dress her. My dd1 is 4.11 and she is the same. I dress her now, (only on the mornings). TBH, she's already started saying 'tut',i'll can do my own buttons'.
I'm in the class of anything for an easy life in the mornings.
O.k couldn't resist and just skimmed the rest of the thread.
I would not threaten the pyjamas thing myself as i never try to say something i'm not willing to follow through on. I wouldn't follow through on that as i do think it's too humiliating.
My threat is no T.V. If she's still paddying, no T.V tonight either (and she loves Little Bear before bed so when i follow through with that, she gets the message.

"Have skimread, but I think the PJs option is good if the delivery is right. 'Frogmarching' into school in PJs (as one of the skeptics put it) is, I think, OTT for a 5 year old. But that presumes that you're furious with them, and they are being forced into the school grounds in PJs as a punishment. "

errrrrrrrrr so why on earth would they be forced into the school grounds in PJs if not for a punishment? [bemused emoticon]

I think its sad that so many people are willing to insist that a 5 year old should be so independent. I think it is heartbreaking to teach a 5 year old that if they don't make your life easier in the morning there will be a humiliating public consequence.

I actually find it really hard to believe that anyone on this thread WOULD actually take their child into school in their PJs. For a start if I took dd1 into school (at 5 years old) in her PJs, I am sure her teacher and the head would tell me to take her home and get her dressed straight away. Therefore undermining the very authority I was so anxious to assert.

Or am I just on another planet here?

i have a similarish situation as scatterrbrain. ds2, 4.7, takes forever getting dressed. simpler to do it myself.
either that, or be screaming loony fishwifffe with stressed out kids and totallly stressed out myself. etc etc.
choose your battles.

Well - is this still rattling on then ?

We had another good morning - Hooray for star charts !

Did explain that if she wouldn't get dressed when I asked her to then I might have to just take her to school in her pyjamas, or half-dressed or maybe even naked - whatever state she was in when I needed to leave really - and she was horrified at the thought - so maybe that was enough - just planting the seed that we do not have infinite time and there may be an embarassing consequence !

Tbh I am with the "anti" crew here - I couldn't face taking her to school in pyjamas - a) would be exposed as crap mummy and (b) teachers would not be happy ! BUT I certainly don't think it would be abusive to stick her in the car with a bag of clothes and let the threat hang over for a bit while she realises her best option is to comply !

Have to agree that the namby pamby school of parenting has a lot to do with the nation of delinquents we have now ! No respect for anything - think they are the most important people in universe etc...rant rant rant

I would certainly threaten to take ds2 to school in his pjs if he wasn't getting dressed because I know as soon as I walked to the door saying "come on then", he'd decide it was more sensible to get changed. That's exactly the sort of thing that works with ds2.

DS2 is 4- I am trying to get him as independent as possible by next September (school). He'll have to manage PE etc by himself so it's better that he is confident than struggling, he doesn't find it easy and needs the practice. . I believe that self help skills are one of the most important things to teach a pre-schooler- far more important than reading and writing

Enid - you're on another planet
Because no-one (except possibly Rhubarb) thought it was a punishment or suggested frogmarching or force of any kind.

What people were suggesting was letting Miss Scatterbrain follow the logic through and realise cause and effect...if you don't get dressed, you would end up in school in pjs. 'And as such, I think 'experiential learning' - is actually better than 'because I say so'.

Everyone said take the clothes with you etc - because at some stage the penny would drop, and she would react exactly as Miss Scatterbrain evidently di, this morning, to the mere thought.

DS would probbly relish the idea of arriving at school in jim jams - so I wouldn't do it with him! But Scatterbrain knows her daughter well, too.

Every 5 year old is different though Enid. My dd is 5.5 and she is very able to dress herself and she understands our routine in the mornings. Ours is a tight one as I have to get dd and ds up and dressed and breakfasted, get their bags ready and mine if it's a work day for me, get ds's lunch ready, make sure they have everything with them, me included, then the neighbours little boy comes over for a lift to school, I have to de-ice the car, get everyone loaded up and more often than not I forget something! I don't have time to help dd, but imo she really doesn't need it. Since I started telling her no telly until she was fully dressed, she's been getting ready on time.

No child likes humiliation, including being shouted at in front of other children, falling over in front of other children, crying in front of other children, being punished at school, not winning a competition, etc etc. It's all a form of humiliation. I would not frogmarch any child into school in their pjs unless they were much older and had really pushed the boundaries too far, but if my dd acted up every single morning, then I would take her half-dressed to the car and make her finish in the carpark of the school.

Children think differently to adults anyway, and what we perceive as humiliation is not to them. They have no qualms about stripping off in front of their peers on a hot day or to go swimming etc, they'll prance around in their pjs in front of friends, they wear bloody silly dressing up costumes ffs! Going to school in your pjs sounds awful for us adults, but these are children, it's not that much of a big deal to them! In fact you'd have to be careful that some children don't see this as a good giggle!

Ditto Blu!

I'll just have to live with being an evil mummy!

Message deleted

great post giddy. I think the really important bit is that we know our own children, and what they are and aren't capable of. DS2 is expected to do things that I know ds1 can't do and possibly never will be able to. Sometimes he moans about that (far enough), but he still has to do it if he can.

If I made ds1 go to school in his PJs because he refused to get dressed, that would be abuse because he can't dress himself and wouldn't understand that he had his pyjamas on anyway, but if ds2 was being pig headed that would be teaching him consequences (and of course his clothes would come with us and of course he wouldn't actually enter the classroom in pjs). In ds2's case it would work. DS3 is shaping up to be stroppier and I would imagine that he would actually see it through to prove a point so its the sort of thing I perhaps wouldn't threaten with him. It's all about knowing your children.

ignore it . put ya foot down and TELL her she must get dressed . dont ask her to get dressed iyswim. take control . use authority and if that means helping her then so be it. i have to help my 4.5 year old . if i didnt i could see her getting frustrated and not wanting to do it herself. gradually let her do more and more herself untill she only comes to you for help with hard buttons/stiff button etc

sounds harsh but she is seeing a reaction and therefore will do it all the more.

from meanmummy

I think that it's very hard to place yourself as a parent.
I am being classed i suppose then as a namby pamby parent who is very liberal. Personaly though, i think i am quite strict. I expect dd to sit and eat nicely with us, to treat others at all times with respect, not to be rude...ect, my mam told me once that i was like a School teacher (quite upset me but that's another story)
I do think it comes down to picking you battles once again and as Stitch said, it's as simple as that for me. If i didn't help her i'd just get so stressed, i am not a morning person and i'd end up a screaming fishwife too.

I do think it's amusing though the persona we put out out here as i was on another thread where i was placed ina group of 'soft as shite' or something.
Not bothered btw, just amused

Every child is different and you cannot simply lump all 5 year olds together.

I think I did use the word "march" unthinkingly much earlier in the thread, which gave the wrong tone - I did not mean I would ever use the PJs thing as a punishment. When you say to a child "If you don't get dressed, you will have to [insert whatever activity] undressed/in PJs" you are simply stating the truth and giving them a choice. You are helping a child to remember that they are part of a wider society where they want to fit in and get on with things, which in effect takes their mind off their battle with you / daydreaming (delete as appropriate) and shakes them into action. Of course it would only work if you knew that sayiong "Come on then, off to school in your PJs" and settin goff would do the trick. If you knew your child would be happy to call your bluff, that would be best avoided because they would just be learning that they can get away with all sorts of outlandish stuff. The child has to have a sense of propriety to begin with and is being asked to take responsibility for their choice. It's far from abuse.

i could never send my children away to boarding school i love every precious moment with them no matter how much they piss me off or make me stressed i'd miss them for the world