End of my tether !!! Boarding school for 5 year old ??

[scatterbrain]

Sorry to rant - but I really need some help here !!

My 5 yr old DD is driving me insane !!

Morning tantrums again !! Last two mornings she has had the most almighty tantrums about getting dressed - just refuses to ! Last night had a long talk with her about how this was very unhelpful to mummy and put me in a bad mood all day, and I have to drive to work and do my job etc etc - and she promised to be good this morning - but no - worse than ever ! We talked about doing a star chart - and she said she would be earning her star tomorrow !

When she was 2 she wouldn't let me help her dress - now she is 5 she apparently can't do it herself ! But she can - and she should at least make some effort !

She is usually fairly well behaved and very happy, and there haven't been any changes or traumas in her life that I know of - so I am a bit baffled really !

Anyway - short of sending her to boarding school or having her adopted - I REALLY don't think I can live like this anymore - have any of you wise ones got any tips ??

BTW - naughty step and being sent to her bedroom don't seem to work on this one - she just screams and screams and screams !

I'm sorry, if my boss asks me to prepare a presentation for delivery in a client meeting, he expects me to do it. If I don't do it, the consequences (humiliation in the meeting and a slap on the wrist) are mine.

At what age is it appropriate to let the child experience the consequences of their actions? When do you stop reminding them to take their reading book to school, for example? Or is my role as a Mother to protect my children's feelings at all costs until they leave home?

And I also think that you are wrong. Is shouting at them also 'abuse'? Is making them sit in their rooms when they have been naughty 'abuse'? If so I think we are all guilty of abuse! It's bloody difficult being a mum and trying to make all the right choices, even worse when somebody comes along and tells you that what you are doing is termed as abuse!

This is not about humiliation. This is about a little girl who is stubborn and will test her will against that of her mothers. The purpose of the punishment is to make them realise that their mother will not be reduced to shouting or flapping or smacking them if they do not get dressed in time, something they are clearly capable of doing as scatterbrain says when her dd is given dressing up clothes she can get dressed in 2 seconds. This is a power-game with mummy, see who wins! If mummy calmly takes dd half dressed or whatever into the car then dd realises that mummy will not be subject to ranting or raving and that dd will not be allowed to disrupt the mornings in this way. It'll only take the once.

Going to school with a 'bowl' haircut is humiliation, going to school with holes in your shoes and boys clothes is also humiliation. But going half-dressed because you've been naughty, well that's a punishment that achieves its purpose.

You seem very sure of your parenting skills nannyme, sure enough to condemn others who do things differently to you and who sees things differently. To tell a mother who loves her children furiously that she is abusing them, well that's just not very nice is it? And I really would prefer it if you would refrain from commenting on my personal situation which is one that you know nothing about.

I am reminded of one of those 'Child from Hell' type programmes where one little boy aged about 3 refused to let his parents get him dressed in the mornings. He screamed, he threw himself down on the floor, he kicked and bit and punched and his parents just sighed and let him get on with it. Every now and then they would make a feeble attempt to cajole him into letting them dress him. As a result of this, his brother and sister were continually late for school as the parents could not leave the house unless the boy was dressed. The nanny suggested that they do what we are suggesting. It lasted one day I think. Once the boy knew that they were serious with the punishment, he changed and began to dress himself every morning on time! There were other things they had to sort out too of course, this was a little boy devoid of discipline. And this is an extreme example.

If a child is controlling their parents in this way, it is neither good for the child or the parents. Abuse is where you neglect or mistreat the child for no other reason than your own gratification. To accuse anyone of that on Mumsnet is extremely misinformed and bad-mannered.

Oh dear ! Sorry - didn't mean to cause an argument !!

Just popped back in to say that we have had a calm morning - dressed herself perfectly with no help at all - when I asked her and was downstairs eating breakfast at the table by 8am.

She got her star on the star chart and was asking how she could get some more later (tidying up, not being rude and being helpful !).

Thanks for all the tips !

well scummy it worked in your case - your ds got dressed before he got to school - but what if he hadn't?

Much as I hate to bring it up, I also had a shite abusive childhood and yes, I would class taking dd1 to school in her pjs at 5 (if it got to the point of actually taking her into school or even the playground), rather than getting her dressed myself, on the abusive spectrum.

IMO.

lol

thats great news scatterbrain

we'll all shut up now

good news scatterbrain.

WEll done Scatterbrain - so pleased you won't have to send her to baording school after all

Re the going to school in PJs - I don't think ANYONE mentioned frogmarching, or indeed, not facilitating the child to see what was happening and enable them to get dressed double quick!

For me, that tactic was not even a 'punishment' - just a way to make a child connect cause and effect - and get dressed pdq when they realised.

I have to say, I'm completely shocked by the opinions on this thread. For the word "abuse" to be bandied around in this context is unbelieveable.

I really would like to know at what age (if ever) you think it is appropriate for children to take the consequences of their actions if 5 is too young. 7? 10? 15? If you've tried all the good parenting tactics and they've dug their heels in? Will you still be dressing them all when they're 12 "because it's easier"?

Sorry but I'm .

hope your going to get success with your sticker chart

i have problems elsewhere it not too bad in my house in the mornings dd is 2.8 aand she loves dressing herself and ds is 3.8 and are even putting shoes and socks on not exactly perfect i just tell the thats excellent and well done for doing it themselves then just correct it myself and tell them im realll pleased

but i do get up at 6 (ish coz dd 2.8 decides if she is up the whole house is up lol) but i have plenty of time to wake up and get things ready for school even wash and iron before 8 lol

But i do have to literaly drag myself out of bed
anyway good luck

Rhubard just wanted to say i think we have a lot in common have read you responses and comments and totally agree with you as to abuse and humilliation in childhood you have triggered alot from my past which is upsetting and annoying as how can a mother do that? (only feeling from having my own children) And found out with therapy alot was blocked out

I really feel for you scatterbrain as there never ceases to be problems and hurdles with our little uns you get over one and then theres a hundred more

good luck xx

just becaues you dress them at 5 doesnt mean you'll still be dressing them at 12!

No, but when would you stop?

err...when I think and believe she is ready, or when she just gets on with it without fuss

like most stages in parenting surely?

DS is 7. I also have DD1 aged 5 and DD2 aged 2. DS decided on Tuesday that he wasn't getting dressed because he didn't want to go to school (doesn't like the teacher he has for one of the lessons). We had a long chat about it at 7.15 and I was very sympathetic - 30 minutes later, he's still in his PJs saying he wasn't going.

What should I have done next?

My dd can also be very stubborn, and dig her heels in. I have to ask her 10 times to do something as often she'll deliberately ignore me and just carry on with whatever she's doing. She is 5.5 and does realise that actions (or lack of them!) have a consequence. I am a hot-headed person (thanks to my mum) and rather than lose my temper and scream at her, which imo is more abusive, I am learning to cope by reacting calmly and dishing out pre-arranged punishments. Therefore she knows that if she does not get dressed in time in the mornings there is no children's TV. If she pushes it further, she gets popped into the car along with the rest of her clothes. It never does get that far though.

She understands that I will carry out what I threaten to do and this has made her stubbornness easier to deal with and has made me a calmer, and imo a better mum.

Emanspiks, it doesn't get any easier when they still do it does it? I just try to distance myself from her all I can and trying not to become the mother that she was. In a way MN is helping me to do just that!

yes I do the no tv thing

flashing nose - he is 7 not 5

a world of difference IMO

Thanks, you've answered my question. I believe Scummymummy's twins are 6 or 7 aren't they? So maybe she's not being abusive either?

no sorry I still wouldnt do the pjs thing

I dont like to threaten anything I wont actually carry through and I know I wouldnt have the balls/wouldnt want to take her to school in her pjs.

So I dont threaten it

If you can be sure of it working before you have to carry through then fine. If you are willing to take them into school in their pjs, genuinely, then you've lost me.

Enid.

Rhubarb, like your style.

Maybe you've already tried this as it's a simple thing, but I find the best strategy with dd (who will be 5 in a month), is to stop what I'm doing, and go over to her. I crouch down, make eye contact, and then ask/tell her what I want her to do. If I call instructions from another room, or ask while I'm distracted/doing something else, she is much more likely to ignore me.

At least, that's what's working for us this week! I'm sure next week will require a different strategy!

well i think i've lost it on the dressing thing.

this morning. with PMT and up half the night with teething toddler, i found dd1 and dd2 had, instead of getting dressed, turned the living room upside down with cushions everywhere "Look mummy we've made a den!" and not at all dressed.

Inappropriate maternal response: throw school bags on floor, swear a bit and burst into floods of tears.

hmm. which school of parenting would that come under?

Lots of sympathy for this thread. One of my DDs is horrific at getting dressed for school (almost 5). I don't think it's particularly deliberate or pre-meditated, she's just a bit vague about these things, to put it nicely . She's in her own little dream world with absolutely no sense of urgency about anything. Part of me admires and envies this, but not at 8.30 on a Monday morning .

fennel, the 'it's perfectly reasonable, you are under pressure but being respectful nevertheless' school of parenting.

I don't want scatterbrain's thread to be spoiled any more by me, in further debating the issues that have come from the PJ's debate. However, I am perfectly happy to debate it on another thread if anybody things I am ducking out shame faced.

I can see why some of you have reacted to my comments. I am happy with my own opinion and don't expect anybody to change theirs because of it.

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