My daughter has been abused by another child

[Ripeberry]

They are good friends or so I thought. DD1 is 8yrs old and her friend is a boy who is 10 months older. Last night my DD1 broke down crying all of a sudden and the only way I could get her to tell me what it was about was to ask her to 'draw' what was bothering her.

It was basically 'rape'. He has been threatening to beat her up if she told anyone and it's been going on for a few weeks unbeknown to me, but thinking back she has been quite moody/miserable

I've banned him from coming anywhere near us (usually at our house everyday)
But I've got to tell his mum somehow, but I want her to get help from him, not know six bells out of him (USUAL SOLUTION!)

How would you approach the parent?

Allsheep.....the Police do not have specialist counsellors at all.

The SOA 2003 does not apply.

Head teachers do not routinely cover up child abuse because of the bad press.

Social services do not collude with headteachers for fear of being sued.

You are talking shite quite frankly.

Notts - i think that year 4 is 8/9 isn't it? so similar age to the children in the OP.

I think that at this age they are becoming more and more aware of gender differences and feelings of liking the opposite sex start to set in. Experimentation is pretty normal but to become naked and essentially stimulate intercourse and oral sex i would say that yes, this lad had seen something he shouldn't.

I think you dealt with it perfectly well, I hope the dad did too.

When the OP speaks with SS (they will be calling to take a statement from both OP and her daughter) she can give the details of her prior concerns. These will all be taken into account.

"I know someone this happened to and the boy ended up being put back in the same school and class as the girl after only a short time off. None of the other
parents at the school were informed despite the risk to their children." And what, precisely, do you think should happen to the child then? He is a child. Do you really think that schools should be naming and shaming children who are themselves probably victims of abuse?

"Make sure that if they put that boy back in the school that a) you remove your child and b) you tell as many parents as possible
(they cannot stop you talking)." oh yes. let's start a hate campaign against an eight year old shall we. And bearing in mind this didn't happen in school I don't imagine he'll be going anywhere. I hope to Christ you don't teach in my child's school - God help the children you come into contact with.

Paperview I do agree that the op should have called SS rather than talk to the mum or even go to the head as tbh the head has very little remit there either esp as this happened outside the school. I also think the fact that there is previous here does change things somewhat - it's not as if it's come as a sudden shock - she's had concerns before and did nothing (haven't seen threads in question though).

Ripeberry said earlier:

"Whilst she was there I rang the SS and they basically said, due to their ages, they can't do anything unless the family of the boy don't take action."

implying that they will do NOTHING.
that isn't right is it?

people now are saying that SS will do something... but she has spoken to them and that is what they said.
this is why people are saying call the police or do something. it isn't that we think that the OP ought to know all the ins and outs of any investigation, but fear that there will be no investigation at all

I can also confirm that AllSheep is talking utter shite.

I was a SW within a Youth offending team. He would NOT have been referred to us.

Many of my uni mates are now working in CPT and no they do not collude with head teachers or anyone else to cover up such incidents for the financial security of the school.

Please DO NOT divulge information about this boy to other parents. there are reasons that local press are forbidden to name minors in court cases and i would expect any right thinking adult to understand why. The chances are that this boy already has a difficult homelife (from what i have ascertained from the comments about prior threads) and the very last thing he needs is the local neighbourhood treating him like the next fred west.

Just spotted Allsheep's reference to being a teacher . No way....please do not let that be true. There is no way on earth she is a teacher.

Thisisyesterday - they have said that there is nothing to be done unless the parents take no action. for them to know that the parents have not taken appropriate action they will first need to investigate.

Something similar happened within my family recently so i know that the investigation will take place.

AllSheep- do you honestly think telling all the other parents is a good idea? Really? How do you think that little girl will feel when she has to go back in the playground, and everyone knows what she has been through? People staring at her? Whispering, pitying her?
Isn't she entitled to some privacy?

The Head isn't 'covering it up'- she is using the correct CP procedures- only the designated person with responsibility for CP in the school should know about this, and would decide what action to take next, though I'm pretty certain it will be a SS referral.

ohhh ok, i think that's what concerned most people on here. because it sounded like it was just up to the parents to say "yeah, we'll sort it" and all well and good!
so i hope you're right and SS are involved properly because if this boy is being abused then he needs help :(

I've reported Allsheep's post it is utterly foul and grossly inaccurate. I am a teacher too. What she is suggesting the OP do and her allegations about the way schools deal with these things are ill advised and untrue.

NewWool - I seriously doubt that AllSheep is a teacher. Her ideas on appropriate CP protocal is so far removed from reality that she has obviously never spent a day in any environment concerning children. I can't see her working as a dinner lady with such an attitude quite frankly

I bet she reads the daily mail though.

I totally agree Mamazon.I wouldn't want the OP thinking that she is speaking from a position of authority or experience, that's why I reported it. (Although I'm sure you've worked that out for yourself Ripeberry) - teachers get enough of a battering on MN as it is without idiots like Allsheep.

just going back to nottscounty post - a little boy of that age wanting to get on top naked, wriggle around and kiss girl on vulva? That sounds far beyond the doctors and nurses curiosity show me yours I'll show you mine I remember from my childhood. I would assume that little boy has been exposed to visual pornography. Sounds like you dealt with it well with your DD but I'd be worried for him.

I haven't read the whole thread, but as a Social Work Manager I can tell you that if I got this referral I would definitely do something. Although it is true to say that the police can't prosecute the boy they would still be interested in a joint investigation. The concern is how and where did this boy's behaviour come from. An assessment would be completed on your daughter. but the focus would be about any future counselling she may need. We would also liaise with the school who would have to complete their own risk assessment.
Our main concern would be the boy and his behaviour, an assesment would be completed.

you have to call your NSPCC they will check the case and refer the girl for medical examination, try not to write nothing down it will go agains you if the other family find out, just call NSPCC, thats their job to protect the children, The police will not deal with it as NSPCC as they are professional for child abuse.

thats their number, you can call them at any time any day, they are for child abuse,

You can call the NSPCC Helpline on 0808 800 5000 at any time of the day or night, 365 days a year.

This was the outcome when there was an allegation of sexual assault in a primary school near me a couple of years ago.

No one was prosecuted, the (assumed - though they should presumably be presumed innocent as never tried) perpetrators were initially allowed back to school, then after an outcry were moved, and the victim also ended up moving schools, presumably at least partly because everyone knew about the incident. Police were involved, though couldn't actually do anything, and I presume social services were involved behind the scenes. The other casualties were the head and the governers, who all resigned (possibly pushed).

Thanks to those who have offered comments on my situation. I feel reassured that I did handle it ok, but will remain vigilant for anything untoward coming from either dd or her best friend...

As to OP - I am not sure I feel qualified to comment . My take on it is that it was the forcing of your DD and the emotional distress that was damaging rather than the physical acts, which sound relatively mild, and similar to what happened to my dd.

I do think your dd needs to feel safe, and to know that you are protecting her. For that reason, it does seem like something needs to happen which shows her that she did nothing wrong, she was right to tell you, and that her friend was in the wrong. Maybe her having a chat with the head about it, who can offer reassurance about this as a figure of authority?

I may be in a minority, but I do think it can be dangerous to make too big of a thing about this sort of activity - it can make things worse and lead to feelings of guilt and shame, which may not have occured spontaneously. If your dd is unharmed physically, and can be made to feel safe, then a 'yes, that was a horrible thing, and you can talk to me about it anytime, but let's not dwell on it' kind of attitude might be the best way to help her.

As for the boy, it does sound like he needs some support. Is the school going to be pursuing this now they know what has happened?

Best of luck with it all...

Agree with those who suggets Head may be acting with other authorities already. At the first sniff of a safeguarding issue she has a duty to all concerned to report. If there is history she cannot disclose this or break confidentiality to the op but it makes such reporting all the more urgent. However am surprised she felt it appropriate to bring the two parents together if so . Does the school have a nurse you could speak to, or perhaps practice nurse if not gp? They too have an obligation to report.

I feel that maybe I should clarify some of the points I made yesterday in the light of comments made by certain posters.

I do however stand by what I have said.

1. I mistyped and meant to say the Police have access to specialist counsellors, they do through the Victim Support Charity and others.
2. Actually the boy would be referred to a Social Worker under YOT see here. The boy is too young to be convicted under the Sexual Offences Act, that is true, I provided the link so that the OP could see what route the CPS would take once they received a case from the Police, which would likely be a Child Safety Order.
3. The Head should have called the Police even though the child is under the age of criminal responsibility so she is not acting in the best interests of the OP's child and she will try to keep it covered up and not inform parents as no discerning parent will want to send their child to a school knowing that a child who attends/ed said school raped another child under threat of violence (just look at exexpats's link if you do not think that it will impact the school should parents find out).
4. The SS are already colluding in saying that they will not do anything unless the boy's parents do nothing. Either OP is not relaying information correctly or this means that they are going to take no action. Why would they take no action when there is a clear Child Protection issue for the OP's daughter, the boy and all the other children he will come into contact with in future?
5. I do not advocate telling parents the name of the child and never stated that in my post. I said that parents should be told, if not by the school by the OP, that does not mean OP has to reveal boy's name or start a hate campaign.

I am a teacher, but I am a parent first. You would be lucky to have me as your child's teacher because I would put both my job on the line and risk prosecution to make sure that you as parents were informed about the risk to your child should the boy be put back in the same school. He is nearly nine, yes he may have been abused (though the OP does not state this and will probably never know whether this is the case), yes he does need help and protection, but he ultimately does know right from wrong, even if he does not know it is criminal activity (which is why we have the age of criminal responsibility). If he thought what he was doing was right he would not have threatened the OP's child with violence if she told people what was happening.

Ask yourself this question, would you as a parent be happy if you found out that your child had been raped by a boy who had previously multiply raped a young child and the school had just put him back in the same class several weeks later? You would want the school to have taken steps to protect your children. What if he targets an even younger child?

OP - I hope your daughter is getting the help she needs and that your family and friends are supporting you through this difficult time.

Very honourable of you to return but you are still not quite getting it right, are you?

In what way scurry?

Why the hell did you not call the police first?! Sorry, but that itself is bizarre. I would be wanting the little sod to pay and the police are the first port of call, not having a coffee with the mother!

Hope your DD copes ....

What a fucking disgusting little shit and his parents are worse....

This happened in our school to a girl who's father was in the police force himself, nothing happened at all, the girl ended up moving school.