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Original poster

Is smacking still acceptable?

145 replies

asouthwoldmummy · 20/08/2010 13:16

My SIL still smacks her 3 DC's when they're naughty despite the fact that it's now illegal. I have always said I'd never lay a finger on DS (nothing to do with legalities, I just hate the idea and don't see that it's necessary). I can't say anything, they're her kids and I guess it's up to her to parent them as she sees fit.
I just wanted the MN jury verdict on whether it's still acceptable or if what she's doing is wrong?

OP posts:
RudeEnglishLady · 20/08/2010 13:24

Is it now illegal in UK? I just googled and some sources are saying its not illegal. Or is Scotland different?

I don't live there so makes no odds - just interested!

It is illegal where I live.

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:27

no, it isn't

if you leave a mark it is illegal

and people have been reported to the police for doing it in front of others

children are the last remaining sector of society (apart from boxers) who can legally be struck by another person - it is rapidly becoming both unacceptable and unlawful, and about time too

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:27

I mean no it isn't still acceptable

Original poster
asouthwoldmummy · 20/08/2010 13:33

Why did I think it was completely illegal, perhaps it should be? What about children who bruise or mark easily?

OP posts:
darcymum · 20/08/2010 13:33

I think the MN jury will be very anti smacking.

I don't think it makes you a bad parent if you do smack although its not the best thing you can do for them. I should point out that I am just talking about smacking, not beating etc.

I think smacking is ALWAYS for the benefit of the parent NEVER the child no matter what other people say. Maybe there is some weight in the argument for doing something that may not be in the best interests of a child but does benefit parents though.

I have never hit my children but the times that I have felt close to it are when I have been angry, stressed or frustrated with them. Same as when I have felt like slapping an adult Grin I have never done this either. It is never a measured thoughtful response to bad behaviour, there are plenty of other ways to punish.

A friend of mine hits hers with a wooden spoon which I am quite uncomfortable about though. She thinks she is a brilliant parent and wants to foster as well.

Peabody · 20/08/2010 13:34

It is completely unacceptable and a sign that the adult needs to learn some parenting skills.

However, I believe the law of the land says it is legal so long as you don't leave a mark. Naturally people are campaigning to have this law changed to make it totally illegal.

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:35

I agree it is a stupid clumsy law

there are some ethnic skin types which asre very difficult to mark

so presumably it's fine to whack hell out of those children Hmm

it's illegal to hit ANYONE else - why on earth would it be ok to hit people as long as they are much much younger and smaller than you are?

I think people know it's wrong anyway, that's why they quickly become arsy and indignant when they try to defend it

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:36

darcymum if your "friend" is hitting children with an implement you should report her.

Peabody · 20/08/2010 13:36

I'm going to have to say this. I think you should do something about your friend, Darcymum.

Original poster
asouthwoldmummy · 20/08/2010 13:39

Especially if she wants to foster, surely social services should know all the facts.

OP posts:
RudeEnglishLady · 20/08/2010 13:41

Oh okay thanks GS.

I think its just assault really.

My english family (who smack)always use the example "what if he ran in the road" blah blah... well, if he did and I hit him I'd probably go to jail here.

I don't like the threat of violence used by some parents either e.g. if you do that you'll get a smacked bum.

IMO it should be illegal as this removes the grey areas and takes it out of people's hands. Its too easy to lash out in tiredness or frustration, a 100% NO removes this option.

Note to family: You are all good parents but you know you smack for much more stuff than road safety - I've seen you do it!

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:41

if she fosters children then they will be at risk

all you need to know really

CAT me her name and I'll report her if you like

darcymum · 20/08/2010 13:44

I don't know what to do, in every other respect she is a very good parent. When she does this she hits them on the palm of the hand so not uncontrolled 'beating' as such.

I wouldn't report her for this as I think the consequences for the family (including children) would be much worse.

She makes no secret of it, in fact almost seems quite proud. I hope she does apply to be a foster parent so that they can highlight how wrong this is.

Maybe I should just mention that I think its illegal to hit them with a weapon.

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 13:47

I don't think it is less abusive for the fact she is doing it in a cold ritualised way

my parents did both the uncontrolled violence and the humiliating ritual and both were utterly devastating in their own way

think about what she is really doing to them psychologically when she does this

the idea of a looked-after child, who has probably been through enough trauma already, landing in the lap of a parent like this - stomach-turning

and if she does end up fostering, she will almost certainly have lied to SS - I can't imagine they hand children over without asking about discipline these days

Peabody · 20/08/2010 13:49

You do need to report her. Nothing you have said removes the fact that what she is doing is wrong.

The consequences for the children are difficult to judge. You may be doing more harm to them by not reporting her.

darcymum · 20/08/2010 13:52

She hasn't done anything about fostering, she just talks about it so far. I don't think she would lie to ss about it, as I said she is not ashamed of it. Having said that she's not stupid so must know that they would disapprove of any kind of violence. Maybe she thinks she could hit her children but not the foster children, I don't know though.

hillee · 20/08/2010 13:56

I may be unpopular for saying this - but don't child/social services have enough to cope with (and let's face it, they have precious little resources as it is) without making smacking illegal.

Time spent dealing with parents who smack, is time spent not dealing with people who do things a million times worse.

A wooden spoon as a weapon? Let's just all get a grip here.

darcymum · 20/08/2010 13:56

As I have said though she is very good in every other respect, I have no worries at all for the safety of her children. She doesn't seem over strict or a figure of fear for them or anything, just a normal mum, much better than me in many ways.

I will mention I think its illegal though and see what she says.

Lougle · 20/08/2010 13:57

Smacking is still a legally acceptable form of chastisement in the UK, unless it is of sufficient force that it leaves a mark.

Just because you think something should be illegal doesn't mean it actually is.

hillee · 20/08/2010 13:59

As an afterthought to that comment - I'm not advocating smacking. I'm advocating common sense.

IMO you get to a stage where smacking becomes a fairly useless disciplinary tool. I think my mother had the right idea - whenever my brother was particularly revolting, she used to make him ring his rugby coach and explain why he was not allowed to play in the match on saturday. genius.

darcymum · 20/08/2010 13:59

I think it is illegal to use something (not a weapon) other than an open hand to hit them with isn't it?

ShinyAndNew · 20/08/2010 14:03

I think it depends very much upon where you are from as to whether it is still acceptable. My two have been right little madams lately and I have been told on many occasion that I should start smacking them and that will 'sort them out' and not just by the older generation either.

Greensleeves · 20/08/2010 14:04

common sense is a subjective thing though IMO

I don't see any common sense in children being the only people in a civilised society who can legally be hit

I also don't see the common sense in "leaving a mrk" being a deciding factor in legality, when skin type and individual make-up can vary so wildly, and what is a "mark" is open to interpretation

it may see trivial to you that a child is being humiliated and hit, but it often isn't trivial to the child who can't fight back and just has to internalise the feelings

and yes, being hit with a piece of wood is being hit with a weapon

juicy12 · 20/08/2010 14:11

completely unacceptable IMHO. I can't bear it. I've seen a couple of incidents recently out and about, which always makes me think if people are prepared to do that in public, what do they think is OK behind closed doors. Sad

hillee · 20/08/2010 14:20

Greensleeves I think we might need to differentiate between what I (and most people) would consider a smack - which is a quick and light open handed tap on the back of the legs or hand - and being 'hit', which implies something with much greater force and intent. And is frankly, a tad insulting to those who were truly hit/beaten by their parents.

This is what I mean by common sense.