Is smacking still acceptable?

[asouthwoldmummy]

My SIL still smacks her 3 DC's when they're naughty despite the fact that it's now illegal. I have always said I'd never lay a finger on DS (nothing to do with legalities, I just hate the idea and don't see that it's necessary). I can't say anything, they're her kids and I guess it's up to her to parent them as she sees fit.
I just wanted the MN jury verdict on whether it's still acceptable or if what she's doing is wrong?

I don't think smacking is acceptable, and I find it sickening that people think it's ok.
Kitty - maybe next time your dc do something which you don't want them to it would be a good idea to think about why you don't want them to do it and explain that to them when they?ve calmed down. What do they learn from being smacked? to avoid you? not to get caught? that hitting is ok? That it?s ok to force other people to do what you want them to? To be submissive? Are these the lessons you want to be teaching?

I'm very much against hitting children regardless what they do and greatly believe in power of reasoning from early age. Luckily our DTs are great communicators and have extraordinarily large vocubulary at age 2.7, makes it all easier.
However, remember reading an article, and no, it wasn't the dreaded DM, , that children who were spanked up to age six, turned out to be more successful and generally more happy than the children whose parents never diciplined them by spanking.

www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6926823/Smacked-children-more-successful-later-in-life-study-finds.html

mine are OK, ds2 was six yesterday and the house is full of balloons and shredded wrapping paper

Lougle of course it was a personal insult.

I think you confuse smacking and boundaries. The absence of smacking is not equal to the absence of boundaries. My children have quite firm boundaries and consequences for breaking them. I think it is clumsy to draw such a blunt correlation between "fathers being knifed" and children not being smacked.

By all means step away from the thread if that is what you would like to do, but the inference that you have been "bashed" or hounded off the thread is simply not true. People disagree on forums. It is possible to do so without declaring personal emnity.

enmity

Not really wanting to get involved in the debate but just pipping up to say smacking was recently made illegal in NZ and TBH it hasnt changed anything. At the end of the day the people who really hurt children are not going to abide by this law, they will still beat children in their care and inflict horrible in injuries and yes sometimes death. The 'everyday people' who do smack just see it as their parental rights being infringed by the 'nanny state' and more than likely carry on smacking behind closed doors, it doesnt change their mind set.

As far as I can see making smacking illegal doesnt acheive anything. Society is better off by trying to educate new parents in alternative ways to disclipine their children, so that in the heat of the moment when their buttons have been pressed that at least they can think of other things to try first.

Tbh I expect most of us were smacked, that's the difference between a generation, it was more acceptable when we were younger. It's no different to when MIL comes out with 'a black doctor/ married a black man'. I dont think she's racist but she's 78 and in her day people did talk like that(esp in rural Suffolk)

whether or not you believe you were psychologically damaged perhaps is the difference between seeing it as acceptable or not? If you think you weren't then what's the problem with it?
We got a smack for each year. I remember being smacked hard 8 times to the point when I was screaming in pain(yes at 8 I prob should have known better but not the point). because of that I could NEVER do that to DS!
I want him to be good because he knows the rewards are better than the punishment for being bad if you get me. I don't want him to be good because he's scared of me like I was my dad.

I tell you that I wish my mum had chosen to smack me more often rather than the hideous emotional torture I received. There are things that that are a lot more damaging than smacking you know

I do agree abouit the emotional torture, that has been the hardest thing to get over and has one the most damage to me of all the things she did to me

but for me it's not an either/or - I think they are both wrong

Well, wrong, I don't know. The emotional shit yes, smacking is not desirable and should be avoided. I must say that I smack a lot less than I used to. Infact I hardly ever do now, it really is the last chance saloon. I suppose due to convos here really..

I think you and I have both mellowed quite a bit kitty

I am still adamant that it is wrong though - just less adamant that only really stupid, shitheaded people do it

I don't approve of shouting either, but I have done that myself.

When did shouting become so bad? I have to shout to be heard in my house. I don't think shouting is bad, its what you're saying thats more important imo.

Lougle , totally agree with your last post.

Shouting is horrible. I try and talk loudly, project my voice. You can be loud without shouting. I hate it when I shout because if I shout I have lost control of myself and the situation and have let things get too far.

Yes Greeny I think we have both mellowed, can't be a bad thing eh?

"I try and talk loudly, project my voice" thats what I would call shouting.

"I have never smacked my kids for jumping out at traffic. I have never smacked in fear or anger. When I smack, and it is very occasionally it is because they have been bloody naughty and other methods haven't worked. Smacking always does."

Exactly in 10 years of parenting I've done it twice and on both occasions it was well deserved and I'd have done the same to DH had he performed in a similar way

darcymum.no it's not the same. Would you say an actor for example on stage who projected his voice so that the audience sitting umpteen feet away could hear his lines was shouting?
No I think not

Would you say a teacher needing to talk to children across a playground was shouting? No
When you shout your throat is constricted and tight actually. When you project your voice your throat is open and relaxed.
When you shout you are tense/upset/ angry
When you project your voice you are not

Very different things

"I was smacked as a child, both with an open hand and a wooden spoon. My self-worth is intact, and I didn't (and don't) feel damaged or humiliated."

"Tell me in what other field of discussion, is it OK for a poster to say "Well my experience is x, so you are just wrong." That is exactly what some posters here are doing."

Pot, kettle, black, Longle.
I can't say I'll never smack DS, he is very young at the moment, so isn't really naughty, but I do believe that it's wrong. I'd like to think I'll never lose my patience that much that I would resort to smacking, however light.

I don't use physical violence against adults and other children, so why would it be acceptable for me to be violent towards DS? It takes a village to raise a child, but I can't see a child misbehaving in public, and run up to them and give them a smack, because that's assault.

Is it a possession thing? It's my DC and I can do as I please with them?

I've honestly never seen smacking change a behavior in any way except to make it worse. Screaming gets louder, running gets faster. If you have to resort to smacking, perhaps they feel insecure, as though they don't have that much control over your child's behavior? I cant see parents who feel like they can keep their kids in line smacking.

I've not read the entire thread - I try not to get involved in politics...

But I have to say that from my experience of being a parent, and having my DD friends with children who are smacked I can say that the children I know who are smacked have low self esteem and are always wanting to get one up on everyone, and very keen to put others down, in order to make themselves feel better about their smacked-down lives.

I think smacking should be against the law. More often than not it's done to suit the parent out of anger or embarrassment - or other 'uncomfortable' feelings.

Punishment does not equal discipline.

All punishment does is teach a child how not to be caught.

Discipline frees everyone up to be true to themselves and have the self motivation to act truthfully.

Leggy - in response to your post (which I realise was probably yesterday) about biting... my Granny had a particularly effective way of dealing with it.

My younger sister went through a biting phase at about three - she would bite out of anger, excitement, frustration, pretty much any excuse would do. Very odd as we were the most disciplined four kids on the face of the planet, and generally she was a pretty compliant child (My friends refer to our upbringing as military style at best). Anyway - one day, Granny (who was our primary carer, as our mother worked full time, and honestly the most amazing, beautiful, caring woman) was the target of a particular biting attack.

So she sat down on the kitchen floor with my sister in her lap, took her finger, and bit it. Fairly gently I might add. I was watching on horrified yet interested. Sister then duly dissolved in tears, and the following conversation went a little like this...

That hurt didn't it?
Yes (sniffle sniffle)
When you bite me, or anyone else, it hurts just like that.
Oh
It's not very nice is it?
No
Would you like someone to do that to you all the time?
No
Do you promise me you won't do it again?
Yes
Alright then - would you like a donut with afternoon tea?

And we never saw another bite again.

Effective? Yes in this instance. Controversial now? Perhaps. And on this thread, very.

My point is - people have so many ways of dealing with situations. Smack or don't smack, I honestly don't care. What I do care about is massive generalisation.

'I was smacked and feel psychologically damaged by it', ergo all who were smacked must feel the same. Rubbish! Just as I don't believe that because some were smacked and didn't have negative emotional consequences, then it must also apply to all.

Personally I think that the odd smack won't kill anyone, but I understand that there are others who disagree.

I figure you do whatever works within the bounds of what you are comfortable with.

sorry for the long post.

that is utterly chilling frankly

controversial? No, it's very clear-cut. It's abuse.

I don't think it IS clear cut though tbh

Hmmm- my first post here. I do smack. My DS (3) is incredibly strong willed. We can go through multiple time outs to try to get apologies. DH won't back me up in timeouts and frequently undermines.

Like others - I can't imagine smacking my child if he started to walk into the road. I would pull him back, for sure. But I wouldn't smack and not after the fact either.

I deliver punishment using the time out method. No punishment for a first 'offence' he's given the chance to moderate his behaviour. He's given clear consequences - sometimes that's a smack, sometimes it's a timeout, sometimes it's going straight home, etc. etc.

TBH - smacking - for this child - is the most effective in terms of changing his behaviour and preventing it happening again. Going straight home from a fun activity also works well - but if you're already at home...

I swore I wouldn't do it, but it actually works and I really don't have to do it very often. In fact, can't remember the last time I did. But I won't take it out of my toolbox for now.

If that's cold-blooded - good! I hope all my discipline isn't driven by anger or frustration. (But of course that isn't the case, tend to get a bit shouty when I'm frustrated.)