Is smacking still acceptable?

[asouthwoldmummy]

My SIL still smacks her 3 DC's when they're naughty despite the fact that it's now illegal. I have always said I'd never lay a finger on DS (nothing to do with legalities, I just hate the idea and don't see that it's necessary). I can't say anything, they're her kids and I guess it's up to her to parent them as she sees fit.
I just wanted the MN jury verdict on whether it's still acceptable or if what she's doing is wrong?

Well there's a lot of non abused little shit bags around biting other kids who may well grow out of it but you feel like biting them back when it's your child they've taken a chunk out of.
I don't know what the answer is but it strikes me that negotitating with a non verbal child is a waste of time, so you either follow them around watching like a hawk they don't hurt other children or you stay indoors until the stage has past.

sorry but biting a small child, that just makes me feel like crying

especially to put the child on your lap as though you were going to give them a cuddle - that has upset me

mamatomany 'shit bags' 'buggers', the language you use to talk about children is pretty horrible. And as Greensleeves points out to you, just because a parent doesn't smack, doesn't mean their children are allowed to behave in any way they choose with no consequence. A child that is poorly parented is simply that. The subject of hitting a child is a different one.

And 'non verbal'? You mean a child that doesn't talk? That doesn't mean they can't understand, be talked to, encouraged or taught. My aunt is 60, she has never spoken. Funnily enough, we still make the effort to interact with her. And I don't mean smacking her.

lolvol, you say the consequences are clear to your child but also admit that you chop and change the way you do things, with your dh undermining certain choices. I think that could be quite confusing for a child. It certainly isn't clear. And the thing is with smacking is that while it appears to work, what we do know is that it only works in terms of teaching your child to avoid the punishment. It doesn't teach them anything about wanting to make the right decision for the right reasons, only pain avoidance. I think it also doesn't make a lot of sense as a 'consequence'. Don't be physically aggressive towards that child or you will get a smack? It's not a logical consquence. Do what I say or I will hurt you. It's not teaching a child the natural order of the world. Teaching a child that they shouldn't hurt another child because it hurts, because it means they will be perceived a certain way, because there are better ways of expressing yourself etc means a child that is thinking about who they are, how they behave and the world they inhabit. Not thinking about how to avoid pain inflicted by a parent.

If it's biting or hitting my child it's getting off lightly with shit bag, that'll just be to it's face.
There are many really horrid children around with namby pamby parents "explaining" they shouldn't do this that or the other, I'm not advocating parents going around smacking their children constantly but there must be other solutions than "talking to them" which seems to be the fashion at the moment. Since children don't understand delayed consequences either like no pocket money this week, no sweets later, I was suggesting people remove them from where they are causing problems for other people, is that really so wrong ?

on each occasion the consequence is clear - I never threaten go home and then punish with timeout.

^You only have to look at the generations of children who now are so devoid of respect for their elders, to see that the decline of smacking has had a very negative effect on society as a whole.

Children today have no boundaries. They are treated like little mini-adults. But they don't have to ability to make decisions in an adult way because they don't have adult minds or adult experience.

How common was it 20 or 30 years ago for a father to be knifed because he dared to challenge anti-social behaviour?^

Lougles, you're either talking nonsense, or you have some sort of backup for your view that children today are worse, or crimes commited by children are worse. I await the latter.

And even if you do, which you don't because it is categorically not true that children are worse behaved and more inclined to criminality than 30 years ago you are still conflating "don't smack" with "don't impart any parental influence".

But as I say, your entire post is nonsense, because your premise is untrue.

they tried to make it illegal to smack a child under 3 don't know what the outcome was.
Not acceptable as it was, when mine where little it wasn't discussed as much as now but I didn't agree with smacking.

There are a lot of really really useless parents around who don't want to tell their kids off. They want to be their kid's friends. FRIENDS? It makes me want to heave.
They are not their friends they are their parents. Their kids should have their own age appropriate friends.
These parents think any sort of discipline is abusive.
These parents are raising monsters who attack my kids in play places. Luckily my kids have me and I'm not afraid to have a go at someone else's ill disciplined child. I don't need to be their friend. God.

On the other hand there are also kids whose parents swear and shout at them in public and smack them in public as well. They most likely do it even more in private. these kids are also monsters.
Why oh why can't we have some sensible middle ground?

I've smacked. I can count on the fingers of one hand the times that I've smacked my DCs. It was perfectly lawful - it is not illegal to smack, just illegal to smack with severity enough to leave a mark. But tbh I really don't think it helped at all. Not a bit. I look back on it now and can't quite believe I smacked them. Useless way of resolving anything.

My mother used to keep a riding crop in the broom cupboard, especially for me. It used to come out for major transgressions until I was around 14. She thought this was perfectly normal. So I think I started repeating the cycle.

But most parents of people my generation (I am 43) smacked. We can all stop smacking.

I have smacked very rarely.
I don't have a problem if people only do it occasionally and obviously within the curent law (not leaving a mark).
I don't accept the argument "You'd never do that to an adult" -- because we have all sorts of different rules about what we expect from children and how we deal with them (different rules compared to adults, I mean). It's a false comparison.

I don't like the idea of parents being criminalised for it, either.

If I knew someone who smacked their kids a lot I would conclude "It's not very effective" for them.

Yes Yes Yes tortoise You said it!My parents in the 50s were unusual; they didn't smack or hit us.Almost all Dcs were smacked then;did that stop the mods and rockers violence? No IMO repression causes rebellion.

One theme that seems to be running through this thread, amongst both the for and against smacking, seems to be impatience. Expecting to tell them something once/ hit them once, and then thats that lesson learnt.

I think the only thing that actually works improving children's behaviour is time. You tell them off again and again and again for the same things until eventuality they stop doing it. Then maybe you congratulate yourself for being such a great parent and solving some particular problem. I think most of the time they have just grown up a bit and that is a process you can't speed up.

Personally I am not a great believer in going to great lengths explaining things to children, I'm not going to debate with a one year old child, what I say goes.

Mine have been through the biting/ hitting stages, each time they did it they were told off and removed from the situation. In the end they grew out of it, I think this time frame would have been the same even if I had bitten them back.

I'm not anti smacking and think most/all forms of discipline are humiliating for children whether its smacking or writing their name in the naughty book but they have to see you don't approve of their behaviour. One day they will just grow up.

Darcymum You are quite right

wow, so we don't actually have to bother with bringing them up at all, they will just do it all by themselves?

There is a BIG difference between the absence of smacking and the absence of discipline. And what's so bad about wanting to be friends with your DC's, you can still have authority. Surely it's better than them being terrified of you?!

God I could really give my DC a smack right now....inner strength inner strength...

No you cannot have authority over someone you are friends with. Well not last time I looked, I'll have to see how my friends like being told what to do by me.
Getting on well with your children and having a good relationship with them does not equate to being their friend.
If you want to be your kid's friend then you are sad and need to get out more.

I completely agree, we are not are children's friends, we are their parents. When they become adults hopefully we will have a more equal friend like relationship but as small children even teenagers, no. Think about it, imagine you are not related, would you want to have a friend who was six/sixteen when you are forty?

For me smacking has never been acceptable and it has never featured in my upbringing of 8y DD.

I personally believe there are far more effective forms of discipline around - Ihave certainly never had to resort to physically hurting my child.

I can't see how teaching your child that in order to get someone to conform or do what they want is to hit them.

The same arguements people use now in order to be "allowed" to hit their child are the very same arguements husbands used to use in order to be allowed to hit their wives.

And yes I do judge those who hit. It is my pet hate and it makes my physically flinch to see or hear a child being smacked.

Oh and smacking is hitting.

If you did either to another adult then it would be classed as a physcial assault. There is no difference.

People who advocate physical punishments for children simply like to play with words to make it feel or sound better.

it's not to another adult is it though. The law is different. Children are not adults.

I've smacked m DSs about twice each and am so upset that I have.

It has always been out of anger/frustration and most certainly hasn't improved their behaviour. totally unproductive and makes you lose.

WIth DS1 I can say that it made it a lot worse.

He was/is very challenging. And I have learnt over the years (he is now 4) that the more I shout/naughty step/talk to him about his bad behaviour the more he does it.

He gets cross and doesn't know where to direct it. So if I get angry he gets more so. And smacking is the ultimate.

I vowed about 6 months ago never to smack again and haven't so far.

About 2 weeks ago I gave up shouting and the change in them is amazing.

kittywise authority is often mixed with friendship in the adult world. Taking authority is a matter of taking a role. At work, I'm a line manager, but on certain projects I work to those I manage - they have authority over me. Parental authority stems from knowledge, love and care - not from violence.