controlled crying...don't we all do it in the end?

[mamacherry]

Who does it? Is it ok? Will it cause lasting damage? Don't all parents inevitably do it in the end at some point or other, whether they admit it or not? Considering it with my 4 months old dd2 as she started sleeping though the night 8pm to 6am at 8 weeks but is now waking regularly and I am sure she doesn't need milk - she's massive!

LOL @ "break their spirit"

What is the "spirit" of a 4 month old and how exactly have you determined that it will be broken if he is sleep trained?

CoteDAzur Fri 13-Aug-10 14:09:31
'The general trend of this and other such threads is that parents who have done CC or similar for a few nights have DC who sleep through from then on.'

no, Cote, many do not succeed and even if they do, come something like an illness or stay away they have to do it all over again...

'Parents who have not done CC because they have an unsubstantiated belief that their baby will no longer love/trust them have DC who still wake up in the night as children.'

Who said that? Many, MANY posts on this thread alone stating that our children sleep very, very well.

I'm baffled as to how you are coming up with this synopsis.

I think people believe that you leave them to cry all the time.

I left them for a less than half an hour twice.

just because you cc doesn't mean you don't respond to a scared/hurt/hungry child just a tired one.

there are far more psychologically damaging things parents do (like being on the internet all day for one )

4 month old only knows that needs are met when they cry

and yes cuddling is a need

then all of a sudden tyou only come when you think you should every 10 mins ir 2 mins whtever

not responding to your bby is he hs alwasy espected

None of that relates to "breaking baby's spirit' which was your laughable claim that I responded to.

wrong wording I guess

just totally abandoning them

ruining their belief that you always come to help them through whatever

going now, enjoy trying to convince yourself that its ok

Letting a baby cry for minutes over a few days is not totally abandoning him, you dingbat

There is an awful lot of misinformation about CC on MN, with the anti-brigade giving the impression that you just put your earplugs in and leave them to it.

Total nonsense.

We were dangerously sleep deprived when we did cc with DS2. He now sleeps, we sleep, DS1 sleepsand we are becoming a happier and healthier family.

I'm not expecting him to be in therapy for years as a consequence .

i laugh that this has a name.

and if people follow a specific routine a la shwnbn - then cool call it cc!

but for me it went like this.

twins and a three year old

twin 1 cried ALL the time, she had an infection, she probably was in discomfort

infection passed she still carried on crying day and night. bear n mind i had another baby to look after and a toddler

so if i left her infront of the washing machine crying and went i the living room (me also crying) popped a prozac and wondered if i should throw her out the window - i think that labling it controlled crying is wonderful - like i knew what the hell i was doing. which i clearly didn't

you will be pleased to know that she is 17 and v. much alive and she doesn't cry anymore.

the moral of the story is - there are people who leave their kids to cry becuase if they didn't they would go insane and smother them.

this is a very relative argument, one persons coping mechanisms are not anothers.

whatever you have to do to get through the day

I don't think cc is trying to break their spirit if done correctly and for the right reasons, and at the right age (4m is too young btw, 6m minimum) ie you have established the baby is waking up in the night through habit rather than a genuine need and is struggling to self settle either because they don't have this skill despite parents best efforts OR the parents have established a system of props which have led to bad sleep habits then sleep training may be the answer (not neccessarily cc but some from of training although cc may have to be the last resort if all other methods have failed)

I think we do our children a disservice by NOT helping them to sleep well without the aid of multiple props and associations. It's a fallacy that all children sleep through when they're "ready"(SN excepting of course), some need help with it and it's better and kinder to do so when they're little ie before the age of 2 (when it's hell for all concerned). It's all very well being "baby led" but this can often be at the expense of intimate relationships and the emotional well being of the rest of the family. Co-sleeping often means the parents relationship suffers/changes. wakeful babies disrupt the other children and no family thrives with an exhausted, depressed sleep deprived parent(s).

And for the record toddlers don't "need" a bf in the middle of the night, they want it to go back to sleep. I really feel quite strongly about this, RL examples of toddlers/pre-schoolers being fed in the night cause a domino effect of problems (and this sin't about long term bf I have no problem with that at all, just do it in daylight hours) for them and the whole family. This includes one family where the dd is being fed up to 4x per night age 4, she's about to start school her and her Mum are sleep deprived wrecks and the child has no skill AT ALL in self settling. How is that fair?

Sorry rant over.

it doesn't have to be a long time to be 'abandoning' just throwing the child belief and securityout of the window that you will come when you need them

custy what you are describing is totally different

Is it cc if you let a baby cry themselves to sleep because they're overtired and crying whether held or not? What if they fall asleep quicker on they're own than held and you keep checking on them? Just interested.

how can you ever completely 100 percent know that they are just overtired?

Because they have a clean nappy, won't feed, it's been quite a while since their last sleep and they fall asleep soon after? What should you do instead?

I like dingbat as an insult

I know you dont just put earplugs in and leave them

but checking in on them every ten mins or whatever the gap is and still not lifting them, trying to communicate to ascertain the issue and help them with it is just as bad

if you can explain to a child what is expected of them and what is going to happen depending on the choices they make that is different but they need to be aot older

sleep depravation comes with parenting, depends on the child but if they dont sleep, you dont. it ends eventually, they are a long time moved out

happy, well if they didn't fall asleep soon after would you go to them and try to help them or just go in look, decide you want them to sleep and walk out again?

I guess I'm asking how you would help them. I mean if it is overtiredness. Would you try and cuddle them even if they cried harder? Is moaning as falling asleep the same?

I know a tired cry from a hungry/scared/pain/poorly n cry. totally different pitch/build up

my dcs all have made the same cries.

No. Did it once broke my heart. DS now 5. He didn't sleep through till he was 4. It's my problem not his - I'm a grown up.

FYI, we never kept any of our DC to cry in their own for 10 mins. Not even 5 mins.

We would go in and comfort (picked DD up, didn't pick DS up as he settled easier that way), then put down, caress head, then leave, come back, shh/pat, sing, whatever. I don't think at any time they were alone for more than 3 minutes.

The aim is to get them used to sleeping in their cots, on their own. You go in and comfort them, then go out, then come back, etc. You don't "abandon" them, that is ridiculous .

It works amazingly fast. You shouldn't leave it to a point where they can stand up in cot and bang their heads against the wall, though. Babies are more malleable than toddlers, and they adapt much quicker to new situations,

Excellent post schroeder and I agree wholeheartedly, babies are not mini adults; they cry with very little provocation and do not need to have their every whim catered for.

When parents say 'my baby becomes hysterical if I don't respond to him' fail to realise that the reason their baby gets so upset so easily is because they are never left to cry for even a moment.

I have 5 DC,I did CC with all of them at some point and every one settled quicker and slept better afterwards.

Incidentally babies crying do not distress ALL mothers, that is a myth, my DH used to have to wake me if it was my turn to get up as often I didn't even hear them.

I didn't do it, despite DS being a terrible sleeper and me often getting up at 6 to drive 22 miles to work after 5 hours of very broken sleep.

He's 3.5 now and sleeps pretty well most nights.

I really disagree with CC.

"sleep deprivation comes with parenting"

There are levels of sleep deprivation - and I was falling apart both physically and emotionally because of the sleep deprivation experienced.

Now my DC are starting to sleep I finally feel human again and am consequently, I think, a better mother to them by day and night.

I totally agree with minxofmancunia that it is actually often helping the child too. DS2 simply didn't know how to get himself back to sleep and consequently didn't sleep through and was miserable and tired in the day too. He is soooo much happier since he started to sleep through. How on earth is that cruel?

cote d'azur - no i would not agree that it is a hypotheses - it is substabtiated with a vast amount of research. Are you familar with John Bowlby? this 'trend' has yet to be discredited by any further child psychologists - infact it has been substantiated by many other leading child psychologists - in victorian times they believed children should be seen and not heard, smoking cured many illnesses and slavery was a good thing. these things are no longer the trend thankfully.

in the sixties contraception, formula feeding, cc all came in to fashion to liberate women from just looking after children. Bringing up children was seen as a second rate job to, say, running a bank etc - now that trend is reversing as we are actually realising that how we bring up our children has a massive impact on the well being of soceity.

Theories of attachment are very much talked about now for bringing up children.

I would never do anything soo unfashionable as CC, I am far too style concious!

'And for the record toddlers don't "need" a bf in the middle of the night, they want it to go back to sleep. I really feel quite strongly about this, RL examples of toddlers/pre-schoolers being fed in the night cause a domino effect of problems (and this sin't about long term bf I have no problem with that at all, just do it in daylight hours) for them and the whole family. This includes one family where the dd is being fed up to 4x per night age 4, she's about to start school her and her Mum are sleep deprived wrecks and the child has no skill AT ALL in self settling. How is that fair?'

Minx, this paragraph makes me really actually angry. What business is any of it of yours?

What problems?
How do you differentiate need from want?
How do you know what skill the child possesses? Do you have a camera on their bedroom wall?

I really, really am struggling to understand where you are coming from.

And this: 'When parents say 'my baby becomes hysterical if I don't respond to him' fail to realise that the reason their baby gets so upset so easily is because they are never left to cry for even a moment.' is a total anachronism (if that's the right word)

It's entirely possible the baby is picking up on some parental anxiety, but the whole POINT of attachment parenting is that a child who KNOWS he will be responded to, cries and frets less, goes further afield in his exploration, knowing he will always be welcomed back in a time of need...

there is a study that showed babies who were responded to quickly in the first 6 months of life cried LESS in the second 6.

I always went to ds2 like a bullet as soon as he began to give the cues, and consequently (I believe) he was slower to go all out for the shrieks. He knew someone would come before he needed to do that.

Think about it. You don't scream unless you know nobody will hear your normal voice.