controlled crying...don't we all do it in the end?

[mamacherry]

Who does it? Is it ok? Will it cause lasting damage? Don't all parents inevitably do it in the end at some point or other, whether they admit it or not? Considering it with my 4 months old dd2 as she started sleeping though the night 8pm to 6am at 8 weeks but is now waking regularly and I am sure she doesn't need milk - she's massive!

Research often seems to find what they were looking for in the first place - funny that

Apologies, second half of my post was about a comment from Brazenhussy. Just to clarify

Could you share with us some of this "vast amount of research" that proves babies sleep after three nights of sleep training because "that is how long it takes to break trust"?

Specifically, has anyone ever tested conclusively that sleep trained babies don't truat their parents?

Is it worth the risk, Cote?

What risk?

The risk that the babies slepp well and the hysteria ends perhaps?

Only popping in to say No, we don't all do it in the end. However I'm not going to bang on about it in a sanctimonious way because it was my baby and my business - you do what is best for you, your family and your mental health.

This thread is as expected - maybe the OP could have been phrased differently if some of sort of support is what is being sought. Otherwise maybe this thread would have been better placed in AIBU.

Flightattendant, I responded to every cry of DS2 for the first six months, and the next four. After ten months and no respite we did CC. I was literally falling apart from sleep deprivation, what was the alternative?

We had to do the same thing with DS1 when I got pg with DS2 when he was only 7mths old. He is now two and I don't believe there are any issues with trust at all.

My mum had four children under the age of three in the 70s, she had to leave us to cry at times as she was on her own and couldn't be in four places at once - I don't actually remember any of it because I was a baby.

We can all only do our best.

I meant the risk that it might have some detrimental effect on our kids, Cote - whether or not there is hard evidence.

cote d'azur - as i have explained, psycholical theory is a 'theory' it cannot be proven in a controlled environment because life is not a controlled environment there are too many influencing factors.

can i share with you the vast amounts of research? no, I cannot remember the entire contents of my MA. i remember the main principles, which struck a chord with me - if you, yourself, wish to research this further feel free to further study or internet research or however far you want to go. I have given you the source - John Bowlby - he did the research and documented it not me.

The OP asked for the reasons 'why' controlled cryiong was bad. I am offering some of those reasons. Do you yourself have any evidence that CC is good for children? Can you prove that it makes them happier/better/etc?

As far as I can see babies find cc distressing. Mothers find cc distressing. How is this good for the child? Is it natural to want to cause distress? Can you prove this please?

It should be easyenoughto identify CC children and test whether or not they trust their parents. The experiment is not complicated. If it has never been attempted, maybe the hypothesis is not that credible.

If you can't even be bothered to show that there is evidence that supports your claims, excuse me for not believing a word of it. My DC and others I know in RL are counterexamples to this "theory" of yours. If you call yourself a scientist on any level, you should know that even one counterexample disproved a theory.

Some minutes of crying over only a few days does not break trust between mother and baby, any more than holding them down to be vaccinated or leaving them at nursery in maternity ward does. It is ridiculous to claim that a loving, caring relationship where he is nursed, loved, kept warm, sang to, kept clean, kissed, and cared for will be reduced to nothing because he cried for some minutes

As for "Is CC good for children?" - it teaches thhem to sleep well, which is a very good thing. Sleeping baby means well rested parents, which means better, more patient, more resourceful parents. In the absence of any evidence that it harms them, yes, it is rather obvious that CC is a good thing.

Disproves a theory. Silly auto-correct on phone.

Cote, I wish I could make head or tail of what you are trying to say in that post. It makes very little sense to me.

Makes sense to me Cote.

Personally, in the context of babies and small children, I don't actually believe it to be natural for them to sleep separately from adult contact. It makes no evolutionary sense to do so. Therefore leaving then alone and crying is madness. But then I've also taken the time to look at what we know about neurophysiology before deciding how to parent my children. My son's an abysmal sleeper but I'd never turn the clock back and leave him in distress as a baby.

Me too. I also like your comment Eddie about your mother not being able to tend to all the children at once so you had to be left sometimes - makes me feel alot better!

i cannot explain to you how a fax machine works but i still believe it does. I don't need to prove someone elses theory to be able to discuss it on an open forum.

You are excused for not believing a word of what i say. People make decisions based on the knowledge that they have so naturally everyone has different beliefs.

I, for one, do not believe in father christmas yet I know some people who do. If someone started a thread on it I might suggest reasons why I didn't believe and may even cite some eminent scientists or thinkers to support my claims even though I may not have learnt their entire lifes research by rote and wish to dig it out so I can prove to you. I am happy to have my beliefs challenged with intelligent discussion - but 'I don't believe you, so prove it' doesn't really cut it.

I sometimes give my toddler fish fingers and chips for tea which I know would horrify some mothers but if someone were to tell me the risks involved and I accepted these risks I might change my behaviour. I'm open to changing my beliefs are you? If you are truly interested in conducting your own experiments into this then thats up to you, thats not for me to do for you. i've done the study I'm interested in, i've made my choices and I'm sharing my findings on here.

quelle surprise, the thread on CC has descended into chaos.......

I read my post again, flight, and it seems to me that the problem is not with my expression but with your comprehension. Maybe reading it tomorrow morning will help.

Otherwise, is there any specific sentence you would like me to clarify?

kalo - google attachment theory criticism, and you will find that there are other psychologists who disagree with Bowlby's theory.

Also, I couldn't find a link that specifically said Bowlby said that controlled crying was wrong...

After my reading, I have come to the conclusion that DS is securely attached to me. And that this is probably a result of all the parenting I have done, not just on the rare nights where we tried CC.

This is presumably why nobody could isolate CC and say that it had an impact on a child's attachments.

So I have come back to where I started which is that I wouldn't personally advocate CC to anybody, but found the techniques helpful in our specific situation.

Well if you don't believe in Father Christmas kalo then I'm not listening to a word of your arguments .

ThatDamnDog, children sleeping separately from their parents is surely not a new phenomena? As I said before, my mum had four under 3 and cared for us alone most of the time, how could she possibly have slept with all of us?

I still haven't seen an explanation of how a chronically sleep deprived parent is actually supposed to cope. Sleep deprivation is a form of torture and can cause serious physical and mental harm. It's all well and good to say we should leap to our children's sides every time they cry, but if you have two children who cry out multiple times a night how exactly are you supposed to function?

As I said before DS2 is a much happier child since he slept through, that may not be scientific but it's tangible and makes sense to me.

let the buggers cry, thats what I say

To answer op - no, haven't done it yet (dds age 2 and 4).

If you said you studied fax machines at university, yes, I would expect you to be able to explain how they work

I haven't even asked you to explain the mechanism by which theoretically a baby would lose trust in his mother. I only asked you to provide links to this ample evidence you claimed substantiates that hypothesis about CC breaking trust between baby and mother, presumably irreparably.

You are unable to do this. It is a bit worrying.

And how old are those "people" you know who believe in Father Christmas?