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Baby names

Find baby name inspiration and advice on the Mumsnet Baby Names forum.

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Original poster

Cultural appropriation or not? Middle name

128 replies

FoilWrappedBiscuit · 15/08/2022 23:13

We wanted to give our new baby my gran's name as a middle name.

My gran's real name is a traditional English name. Think Doris.

But since she was a teenager, everyone has known her as another name, one that is very obviously from another culture. Let's say Parvati. Everyone knows her as Parvati, her husband, her children, everyone - and has done for 70+ years.

Now I knew she got the name Parvati from a film, because she loved the character and thought she was beautiful, and hated her real name. But I only found out recently that the character in the film was portrayed by a white actor using brownface.

This is making me hesitate. The name itself is so bound up with my gran that I'd sort of glossed over my misgivings about giving an English girl an Indian middle name, but this backstory makes me a bit uncomfortable on my daughter's behalf. I'm imagining her growing up, having to explain her middle name... "I'm named after my great gran. No, she wasn't Indian, she just saw a character in brownface and stole the name"... It's not good, is it?? But I want to honour my gran. I've thought about just going for "Doris" but since nobody has called her that name for over 70 years it seems totally pointless. Wwyd??

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Bootsandcat · 15/08/2022 23:17

I wouldn’t… I would use Doris to honour her because that is her real name so it’s not pointless

RichardOsmansXraySpecs · 15/08/2022 23:21

I’d call her the name.
Your gran loved the name, the character - she wasn’t the one being racist.

When she grows up she just says “it was my gran’s name”, which it was.

Was it a fictional film or was the character a real person?

Soontobe60 · 15/08/2022 23:23

My father had a legal name and a different nickname everyone knew him by. 2 of his grandchildren have his legal name as their middle names. We all know it’s dad’s name.
I agree with others - stick with Doris.

Aquamarine1029 · 15/08/2022 23:24

I would use whatever name I want to, and I wouldn't care what anyone thought of it. It was your grandmother's name.

OppsUpsSide · 15/08/2022 23:25

I would use the name she chose or not bother - I wouldn’t use the name she hated.

Spinasaurus · 15/08/2022 23:29

She doesn't need to use her middle name though, does she? She can just say it was her granny's name.

FitFat · 15/08/2022 23:29

You wouldnt have to share the story I guess - are threy widely known? I think if I knew the story I would find it slightly offensive. I'm a poc. I dont know. It would be helpful to know the name to be able to judge better. Your Dd herself might also find it slightly distasteful when she is older.

Ylvamoon · 15/08/2022 23:31

I would use the name. It's a middle name and your DD does not owe an explanation to anyone!

PS, my grandma was similar, she didn't like her given name and called herself after a character in a book.

I really like that kind of independence. A strong.woman, what a great role model!

ofwarren · 15/08/2022 23:39

Is it Cleopatra?

InTheFridge · 15/08/2022 23:39

I'd use the name.

RunningFromInsanity · 15/08/2022 23:42

people don’t care about middle names as much as MN makes out. I couldn’t tell you any of my friends middle names.
If asked, just say it’s your grans name. Very few people are then going to quiz you on your grans heritage.

Augustwine · 15/08/2022 23:44

I’d use the name, people very rarely if ever have to explain their middle name to others. And just because the name is loosely associated with a character in brown face doesn’t mean it doesn’t have other associations-such as reminding you of your gran

GeorgiaGirl52 · 15/08/2022 23:54

Parvati is an authentic name. You don't have to go into the whole story - that the character was a white actress in brown face is irrelevant. Use it and remember your grandmother.
Cultural appropriation is like wokeness. It is going over the top and will die down.

LadyOfTheCanyon · 16/08/2022 00:01

I don't know - if someone said " my name is Lisa Parvarti Higgs", I might have some questions as to why, and would assume a mixed race background until told otherwise. I wouldn't care, but I would wonder.

mogwa · 16/08/2022 00:04

Most people are going to accept that your name is your name. They're not going to inquire deeply about your heritage or why you were named that. I can't imagine approaching someone and asking why their name doesn't match their apparent ethnicity.

Plus, if it's just a middle name, it seems like a non-issue to me since it's unlikely that anyone outside of family/friends will even know about it.

MbatataOwl · 16/08/2022 00:05

I wouldn’t… I would use Doris to honour her because that is her real name so it’s not pointless

She hated her name so why would that be an honour? If anything it's complete and utter disrespect.

Deadringer · 16/08/2022 00:13

I would use the name your granny loved, and if anyone questions it in years to come, it was a name your granny was called by because she loved it. That's it.

excitingusername · 16/08/2022 00:30

You are naming after your Gran. If Parvati is the name that makes you think of your Gran then use it. You don't have to explain all the brown-face stuff to your kid for goodness sake - why taint it. It's a lovely foreign name that was adopted by some Brits - we are actually still allowed to do whatever we want ya know despite all the oppressive 'rightthink'! We live in a free country. Plenty of South Asians adopt British names!

The concept of cultural appropriation is just a new way for westerners to continue to self-flagellate themselves into a self-inflicted oppression. It's sometimes valid in certain examples but otherwise ignore the excessive guilt and shame we're made to feel for everything.

Penfelyn · 16/08/2022 02:37

The reason why your gran picked the name is neither here nor there. What matters is that she was known as this name. You're naming your daughter after her, not after the movie character. So the brownface aspect is irrelevant.

People might ask but they don't need to know the whole story. You can even mention it came from a movie character without mentioning the brownface thing.

pounchill · 16/08/2022 02:50

Use a different name to homor grandma. It's not worth it now

FixItUpChappie · 16/08/2022 03:29

Use the name your Gran loved and let the story end there without all the handwringing over measuring another era's movie by today's standards and values.

"My gran loved the name and we loved her" - enough said.

LetHimHaveIt · 16/08/2022 03:58

Natalie Wood as Maria? I don't think you'd have to explain 'Maria', if so.

Whatever you do, don't use the given name she hated. That would be very peculiar.

sjxoxo · 16/08/2022 04:03

The fact it was your grans name is enough. You don’t need any further justification to use a name that means a lot to you. Xx

Mushroomlady · 16/08/2022 04:04

Don't do it. It sounds like a white person trying to make themselves out to be mixed heritage when they're not.

VashtaNerada · 16/08/2022 04:09

I would use it. When your DD is old enough you can explain the historical context and the fact that it was once common for white actors to play black characters - we don’t erase historical (or current) racism by pretending it didn’t happen. But enjoy the name. Your Granny loved it with the best of intentions.

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