Cultural appropriation or not? Middle name

[FoilWrappedBiscuit]

We wanted to give our new baby my gran's name as a middle name.

My gran's real name is a traditional English name. Think Doris.

But since she was a teenager, everyone has known her as another name, one that is very obviously from another culture. Let's say Parvati. Everyone knows her as Parvati, her husband, her children, everyone - and has done for 70+ years.

Now I knew she got the name Parvati from a film, because she loved the character and thought she was beautiful, and hated her real name. But I only found out recently that the character in the film was portrayed by a white actor using brownface.

This is making me hesitate. The name itself is so bound up with my gran that I'd sort of glossed over my misgivings about giving an English girl an Indian middle name, but this backstory makes me a bit uncomfortable on my daughter's behalf. I'm imagining her growing up, having to explain her middle name... "I'm named after my great gran. No, she wasn't Indian, she just saw a character in brownface and stole the name"... It's not good, is it?? But I want to honour my gran. I've thought about just going for "Doris" but since nobody has called her that name for over 70 years it seems totally pointless. Wwyd??

Hmm it’s a difficult one. I think that if you’re having misgivings then you’re not 100% comfortable with it yourself.

I would find it somewhat strange if a white child had an Indian middle name.

My own (mixed race but very white looking) child has an Asian middle name. It’s a family name and DS does share that heritage (despite appearances) so if anyone ever asked he could say “it was my grandad’s name”. No one has commented on it so far though.

@ofwarren

Why would it be Cleopatra?

Cleopatra was Greek Macedonian, not black.

I think it's lovely. The intention is to continue a family name rather than ape another culture for the sake of it.

A joke, surely? Please tell me this is a joke?

Then you're just looking for offence.
White English people have been called Maria for hundreds of years. It's a perfectly usual name for a white English person.

The name I think you're looking for is Maria

*Mary, not Maria!

Middle names can be anything. Most people never use them, so I would not hesitate to use it. I would also say it was the name your gran used because she loved the name and did not like the name Doris.

Because its the one that gets the most complaint about online, especially when Gal Gadot played her. Plus, the OP said brown, not black.
I don't care either way to be honest.
www.theguardian.com/film/2020/oct/14/gal-gadot-cleopatra-backwards-step-for-hollywood-representation

You can still honour something without it being the same. You sound like a barrel of laughs.

Its the name used by your grandmother who you loved. Its origins are irrelevant. Cultural appropriation is bollocks. You are chosing the name because you like the name end and are passing on the fond memories of your gran. No different to if her name was anything else.

I would use the name she called herself and not Doris. Why bother using a name she hated and never used? All your child is going to know (or share) is that her middle name is that of her grandmother.

Cultural appropriation is not bollocks. But middle names can be whatever we want. No one uses them. So for passing on family stuff they are ideal.

@veniceorna Here's just one example from history: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Branwell

Do you live in the UK/Europe? Because I would be shocked if you've genuinely never encountered this name on a white woman

No, Maria is correct. It's a normal English name for a very very long time, and there is nothing particularly "hispanic" about it.

Maria is a perfectly common name used in Britain and was quite popular in the 60s when I was at school.

@veniceorna Maria and Marie were historically very common variants of Mary, in use all across Catholic (and later Protestant as well) Europe. Where do you think Hispanic culture got it from 😂

Maria is of Latin origin and is popular in Spanish speaking communities but its also popular in other places where the language is derived from Latin, one of which is England.

People appropriate names from my culture all the time. Most of the time, I think why don't they want to reflect their own culture, not mine. In your circumstances, I think I'd just use the name and say your grandmother just chose an exotic name rather than Doris.

Or you could just chose the more attractive Dora?

Maria is also used in other white/non Hispanic countries. For example, Marie Antoinette was actually born Maria Antonia - she was Austrian and her mother and 10 sisters were also called Maria!

It's not even uncommon for non-Hispanic Americans to have the name Maria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Brink
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Bamford
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Bello
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Cantwell
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Shriver

Maria was particularly popular in the eighteenth century in England (as was Marie in the fifties / sixties).

Is this satire? I don't even know any more.

Girls names in England and Wales by popularity

Maria

1904 - 80th
1914 - 90th
1924 - 66th
1934 - 59th
1944 - 57th
1954 - 42nd
1964 - 30th
1974 - 44th
1984 - 78th
1994 - 92nd
2004 - 113th
2014 - 73rd
2020 - 70th

Maria has been a name used for years? Why is it disrespectful?

There was a white girl in my class growing up called Maria and theres at least one in the school I teach in!

I definitely wouldn't use Doris. You sound uncomfortable about using the Indian name OP. I wouldn't call my daughter that if you were going to go on about brown face and racism etc. Who wants that attached to their name? I think it's fine to use it but just have the positive associations with your gran.