Maybe got it down to 3 girl names

[Sansa87]

We are due in three weeks and have really been struggling with names.

I think we’ve got it down to three names that we both like.

Francesca,
Paige,
Brooke.

Middle name is Vera Jean after grandmothers.

Opinions, (please don’t be too brutal 😂)

[quote sarahpee]@itwillallbeokay

"The article you've posted just reinforces why Italian names are so important to Italian people and how it reflects their culture.
Thankyou for posting it."

So how does this explain using an English name? Alice is in the top 10 names used in Italy last year. How does an English name reflect Italian culture? Please do explain... [/quote]
Alice is not pronounced the same in Italy. The way it is pronounced is Italian and from
Italy.
Look it up on you tube on how to pronounce it and where it comes.

@frangipanetart

Chiming I'm here as a British Francesca who (coincidentally) went on to learn Italian and now has many Italian friends and colleagues - I've never experienced the slightest negativity towards me having an Italian name. It's a good icebreaker and I've simply explained that for whatever reason it's a popular name in the UK even for those without Italian ancestry. Although they find it slightly curious, none of them bat an eyelid and I've certainly never had any mention of cultural appropriation

If you feel insulted by my name, you're entitled to your opinion, but I can't say I understand why you would waste your energy on being professionally offended by such a non-issue...

I'm not insulted by your name. I love the name. However it is not up to you to tell me or any other Italian how we feel about the use of our names. If your Italian friends etc are happy with it that is lovely especially as you have immersed yourself in Italian culture.

@CatkinToadflax

Nice try at turning your argument round. I don’t know - I’m asking you because it’s the point that you are making again and again on this thread. So....?

You are the only one having an argument...

Oh my.

@CatkinToadflax

Oh my.

Yes indeed.

@itwillallbeokay I'm not educating you on how you should feel. My first line was that it is fine for you to feel as you do. Just not to project it on others or dismiss their feelings. (I did not dismiss yours)

Francesca has been used in England since at least the 1840's and been in the top 100 manes since the 1980's
Out of interest how long does a crossover take?

[quote jackstini]@itwillallbeokay I'm not educating you on how you should feel. My first line was that it is fine for you to feel as you do. Just not to project it on others or dismiss their feelings. (I did not dismiss yours)

Francesca has been used in England since at least the 1840's and been in the top 100 manes since the 1980's
Out of interest how long does a crossover take?[/quote]
I don't think it has 'crossed over' whatever that means. It is an Italian name that is regularly used in Italy. The English equivalent is Frances.
You are the one who is insisting it has 'crossed over' so you tell me.
The Italians that have come on here and also Italians I know would not feel that it is culturally appropriate/question the use of an Italian name for someone that does not have Italian heritage/links to Italy.
However I have been told by many non Italians on here that this is wrong. So I will educate my family and other Italians that we should not feel this way and accept what non Italians are telling us.

Well, I was going to say Paige but now my vote is definitely for Francesca.

@itwillallbeokay I would say that almost 200 years of consistent use means it's crossed over

I emailed the Italian families & colleagues I know earlier today as I was intrigued to get a more balanced view but so far 4 have come back either with eye roll or laughter emojis and 1 said it was ridiculous and to tell the OP to absolutely use such a beautiful name

[quote jackstini]@itwillallbeokay I would say that almost 200 years of consistent use means it's crossed over

I emailed the Italian families & colleagues I know earlier today as I was intrigued to get a more balanced view but so far 4 have come back either with eye roll or laughter emojis and 1 said it was ridiculous and to tell the OP to absolutely use such a beautiful name [/quote]
That is really great and I'm sure they have been very honest with you. As I've said, now that I have been educated about how silly that I and my family and other Italians I personally know feel about this, I will make sure I will discuss this with them.
We should obviously not feel this way.
Also the other Italians who were on this thread earlier have also hopefully been educated.
Especially as you have now contacted your colleagues and they have confirmed this for you.

I wonder if some of the differences in how protective people are about the use of a name or similar depends on how immersed in the culture they are.

So an Italian living and working in Italy feels so comfortable and secure in their culture that sharing it isn't a big deal.
Whereas if you are of Italian heritage but living in a different cultural space it seems more important that it is restricted to others like you.

I have noticed that the Scots who are most protective of things like kilt wearing tend to be more heritage Scots rather than the ones who are currently in Scotland. I have always assumed that was about wanting to belong and excluding others is one way to try and do this.

I like all the names OP suggested.
The best one for the surname is my suggestion, sounds like that won't be Paige.

@itwillallbeokay you have put a spectacular amount of effort into arguing into an echo chamber on this thread. This must be one of the most-posted-on Baby Names thread of all time
Poor OP, if you’re still reading... it is actually ok for you to use the name that you’d like.

My neice is Paige aged 29 and really doesn't like her name. Also my friends daughter aged 22 is Paige and hates it!
I really like Brooke.
My friends daughter is a Francesca (24) but, although her parents wanted it shortened to Frankie, her friends all shorten it to Chez, which she likes, and that's now her known as regular name, so be prepared for that.

@AvonCallingBarksdale I was so nervous about posting here because y’know, mumsnet. I expected people saying the names were awful, but 100% didn’t expect this 😳

@sansa87 use any name you love.

[quote AvonCallingBarksdale]@itwillallbeokay you have put a spectacular amount of effort into arguing into an echo chamber on this thread. This must be one of the most-posted-on Baby Names thread of all time
Poor OP, if you’re still reading... it is actually ok for you to use the name that you’d like.[/quote]
@AvonCallingBarksdale Thankyou.

Yes absolutely use any name you like OP.
I've never said not use it and that it is totally up to you.

@Sansa87, go with Francesca, it's beautiful. And if we want to bring language / culture into the debate, perhaps we could just appreciate the beauty of the Italian language.

[quote CatkinToadflax]@sansa87 use any name you love.[/quote]
Absolutely agree.

Well I had no idea that Francesca was originally an Italian name. I reckon that's a sign that it has successfully "crossed over"

Do you object to people being naming their children Isabella, Maria etc etc

I think you need to get out more to be honest.

@Iremembertheelderlykoreanlady

Well I had no idea that Francesca was originally an Italian name. I reckon that's a sign that it has successfully "crossed over"

Do you object to people being naming their children Isabella, Maria etc etc

I think you need to get out more to be honest.

I think you are just being unnecessarily rude.

Francesca for sure, Francesca Vera Jean is lovely.

Other two sound dated and somewhat made up to me.

@itwillallbeokay

Francesca is a beautiful name. However it is a very Italian name. Do you have any Italian heritage? As it's the equivalent of using a very Irish name e.g Aine and not having any Irish heritage.

It is Italian by origin but has been used in the UK for centuries because it’s the feminine name of a saint. Italy and the UK are European and traditionally Christian cultures, with no significant colonial relationship. Cultural approbation when it comes to names is dubious anyway, as names have always travelled so much, but it certainly doesn’t stand up in this case.

@itwillallbeokay

"Alice is not pronounced the same in Italy. The way it is pronounced is Italian and from
Italy.
Look it up on you tube on how to pronounce it and where it comes."

Ah, I see, so it's okay then for a Brit with no Italian heritage would be okay to use an Italian name, provided we pronounce it differently. something like Leonardo.

I have to say that makes no sense to me, but if it's okay fan Italian to use an English name because they pronounce it differently then surely it must be okay for a Brit to use an Italian name with an English accent. Anything other than that would be hypocritical.

However, I'm still not seeing why it is not cultural appropriation for an Italian to adopt and use an English name, but it is for a Brit to do so.

Or does it stop being cultural appropriation if you use your own pronunciation?

[quote sarahpee]@itwillallbeokay

"Alice is not pronounced the same in Italy. The way it is pronounced is Italian and from
Italy.
Look it up on you tube on how to pronounce it and where it comes."

Ah, I see, so it's okay then for a Brit with no Italian heritage would be okay to use an Italian name, provided we pronounce it differently. something like Leonardo.

I have to say that makes no sense to me, but if it's okay fan Italian to use an English name because they pronounce it differently then surely it must be okay for a Brit to use an Italian name with an English accent. Anything other than that would be hypocritical.

However, I'm still not seeing why it is not cultural appropriation for an Italian to adopt and use an English name, but it is for a Brit to do so.

Or does it stop being cultural appropriation if you use your own pronunciation? [/quote]
Alice (the way it is pronounced in Italy is not an English name). It just literally has the same spelling that is it. Do some research on it.