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Original poster

Walking into a surname disaster?

162 replies

Minimoon123 · 03/08/2018 09:21

Ok, so I'm a FTM, 40 weeks pregnant today and don't know if I'm having a boy or a girl. Looking for thoughts on whether I'm heading into a world of surname pain or not because...

DP and I not married. He's Irish, I'm English. He has no family - both parents passed away, no siblings, basically no one to carry on his name whereas there are bazillions with my surname. So months ago I said baby should take his name. He said he didn't mind. But now seems to mind!

Didn't discover until a couple of days ago that he considers that the baby will take the correct Irish version of his name depending on their gender. So if a girl, instead of his surname: O' XXX, would be Nic XXX. (O' means 'son of' and Nic means 'daughter of' apparently). To complicate matters further Nic is pronounced Nee. And to complicate matters even further, the first name and surname of our potential daughter also involves a lot of Nee Noo and Naa type sounds. Basically she would sound like an ambulance siren.

(Slight side note, I already caved on the first name as he played the 'the only name I like is my dead mother's name' card. So we're in fully Irish territory here with first and surname despite the fact I'm English and we live in England.)

So: I held firm (not easy as DP is super stubborn) and have refused to agree to Nic XXX but instead have managed to agree a compromise on just dropping the O' so it's as close to DP's surname as possible while still making sense to him (and she has to have Nic as a middle name). But what that effectively means is:

DP will be O' XXX
DD would be XXX
DS (if/when) would be O' XXX
And I would be YYY

So the poor child would have a slightly different surname from anyone else. Is this going to cause problems? Travel? etc? I thought it would be ok but I can tell my mother is worried which has worried me!

Obviously it might all be moot if it's a boy but then there's always a chance of a girl in the future so I guess good to know!

What do you think? (Sorry post got looong!) I don't want to reopen the argument with DP but equally I don't want to wander into a mess with my eyes closed.

OP posts:
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ArnoldBee · 03/08/2018 15:31

If your daughter gets married and takes on her spouses surname then the Ni will become completely pointless.

dinosaurkisses · 03/08/2018 15:34

Ní is pronounced like knee.

You can flip between an Irish name and English equivalent- I have my Irish name on my bank account and passport, but use the English day-to-day because it’s a pain in the arse to explain.

Awrite · 03/08/2018 15:36

Well, in our family, dd has my name and ds has dh's. I would say dd is more attached to her name and is adamant she won't be changing it if she ever marries.

I'd like more women to put themselves first when naming their children. I guess they capitulate when at their most vulnerable and then regret it for years (yes, not every woman but enough).

kenandbarbie · 03/08/2018 15:52

Ooo quinions I didn't know that tradition!

catherinedevalois · 03/08/2018 16:06

I love that awrite and would love it to become the norm. I suggested it to my niece and her husband looked horrified 🙄

Awrite · 03/08/2018 16:55

It would be great Catherine, wouldn't it? It's within our means after all.

Personally, I couldn't be doing with a man who didn't see me as equal. And, let's face it - we are only talking about parity here.

LoveInTokyo · 03/08/2018 17:51

Parity?

No, let's have all men taking their wives' names on marriage and all children taking their mother's name for the next thousand years, and then we can discuss parity.

Wink
FASH84 · 03/08/2018 18:00

I have a lot of Irish family, a lot of whom are O'xxx all genders have that variation, most of them live in Ireland

FASH84 · 03/08/2018 18:02

@LoveInTokyo DH and i both double barreled , our child will have the same, a penis does not equal privilege in our house 😁

theanonymum1 · 03/08/2018 18:04

Me and DP are not married and I allowed ds to have DPs surname. I really regret it!

frogprincess84 · 03/08/2018 18:31

Plenty of people in Britain have first names and surnames from their parents home countries that are not straightforward to pronounce to native English speakers, but people learn. That being said, if it's not what you want for your child it's entirely your decision and you shouldn't be bullied into it. Out of interest, is his mum's forename a common Irish name (like a Niamh or an Orlagh) or a potentially trickier one?

MushroomMushroom · 03/08/2018 23:50

Personally, I think your DP has a cheek insisting on any variation of his name. If it's so important to him he should marry you. Sorry, I know that may sound harsh but, for me, if you are not married, the baby has its mother's surname.

HeyDolly · 04/08/2018 13:21

I’d go with the O’xxx

I’m Irish, living in ireland, and there’s plenty of females with an O’Surname. Much more than there are that have a Ni’Surname.

I think you’re OH is being a bit ridiculous and selfish tbh.

AmyRhodes · 04/08/2018 14:52

He can't take the moral high ground about tradition when you're creating a modern family out of wedlock.

(Not a judgey post - my partner and I don't plan to get married. Hence why neither of us can ever play the "tradition" card.)

Annab1983 · 04/08/2018 15:14

Irish here and lived in Ireland almost 40 years, never ever ever in real life met someone using Ni (except in Irish class when you learn your full name in Irish for the craic 😄) have lots of female friends and relatives who married O’ surname and are O’ surname now themselves.. unless you are living in a predominantly Irish speaking area it will be a pain for your child to have to explain this daily!

dinosaurkisses · 04/08/2018 16:23

I don’t understand how previous posters in Ireland have never met someone using the Irish equivalent of their name- we couldn’t move for them in North Dublin!

Elliebobbins · 04/08/2018 16:59

I do think the surname thing could be a potential issue. Also mothers travelling alone with a child who doesn't have their surname have encountered difficulties. More importantly, this will be your child too and it seems as though you have had very little say in the name at all and the compromises you have achieved are very minor. I think that the parent whose surname is not being used should have greater say in the given names, although I do think it is ultimately a joint decision. I would maybe use the honour name in the middle and suggest your own choices of first names. After all, so far the only part of the name you have had any say in is to not have the Nic in the actual surname.

GladAllOver · 04/08/2018 17:07

All the posts about Irish names and pronunciation are very interesting, but miss the point.
The child's father wants to decide the child's name by putting pressure on its mother, instead of taking full responsibility for the child by marrying its mother - which would automatically give it his name.

His selfish insistence on getting his own way like this doesn't bode well for a good family relationship.

DontLookBackIntoTheSun · 04/08/2018 17:31

No, a child doesn’t automatically take its father’s name if the parents are married.
There are no rules, only convention.

BlueGlasses · 04/08/2018 17:52

Registrar here. In answer to an earlier question from the OP, yes you can change a child's surname after marriage by a process called re-registration eg DC has mums surname and it is changed to dads surname or surnamed are double barrelled after marriage. But that is the ONLY time you can change it on a birth certificate after birth has been registered. So if you gave DC your partners surname when you initially registered baby you could not change it to yours at a later date on the birth certificate, only by deed poll, and then only with permission of the father because the father receives joint parental responsibility when they are named on the child's birth certificate. Hope that makes sense!

extinctspecies · 04/08/2018 18:54

I used to work with a girl whose surname was Ni XXXXX.

Until this thread, I hadn't realised the connotations.

I think she came from a very traditional Irish family. She was super smart.

Harpstrings · 04/08/2018 19:06

Register the baby alone, so there is no pressure on you to cave & give in to his demands.
Register baby in your surname, with a beautiful first name of your choice.
IF and WHEN you marry, you can consider changing the baby's name then, and only then, so that you all share the same surname.
Giving a child the fathers surname when you are unmarried is giving away a lot of legal rights that you may regret. Especially if you split up a couple of years down the line...

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 20:17

Once you've had a baby with a man you're not married to it's harder to walk away if he decides he doesn't want to get married. As opposed to if you have no baby you can say "either you commit to me or I walk".

Since the OP is already pregnant, giving the baby her surname and saying she'll change it if they get married is one of the only bargaining chips she has left.

HeyDolly · 04/08/2018 20:36

Some posters on here assuming that women are desperate to get married and need ‘bargaining chips’ to force a man to marry then HmmConfused. It’s 2018, marriage isn’t compulsory or the be all and end all. Having a child together is a bigger commitment imo anyway.

LoveInTokyo · 04/08/2018 20:41

For a woman, having a child is a bigger commitment. For a man, getting married is a bigger commitment.

And the OP has said she wants to get married.

"It's 2018" doesn't mean "marriage isn't as important as it used to be".

"It's 2018" means "lots of women are having babies outside of marriage because there's no stigma anymore, but find themselves left high and dry if the man buggers off".

I would never give my children the surname of a man who wasn't committed enough to marry me.