In Scotland Wales and Ireland (UK bit)

[JazzAnnNonMouse]

Is it more common to have a very scottish Welsh Irish name or a more English easily pronouncible one in a say a class of kids?
Does this depend on areas eg close to borders are more anglicised? Or just those with english connections (family possible moves etc)
There are so many names that are so beautiful that I'd never heard of before reading them on here but theyre almost never pronounced how I expected

Exactly, nobody can know everything!

i was once severely reprimanded by an American poster for not knowing that Irish were not classified as white back, I don't know, 200 years ago. I was being very literal in my response to that statement of hers, saying what do you mean, the Irish are amongst the palest people in the World? and she told me I was ignorant of my country's history. But it wasn't really, it was another country's perception of its poor immigrants.
Anyway, i remember feeling that the reason I didn't know was because nobody had ever told me/taught me, and now that somebody had told me, I knew it. So please don't make me feel ignorant

steviebuns that sounds interesting, the Quine for women, bears some similarity to Kvinde (Danish for woman, pronounced something like kveenuh). I love languages. [nerd]

i8E314

I think those with the Doyle surname might disagree with the American seeing as they are the black Irish by name.

Black Irish was also a term for those Irish shipped off in Penal Ships as punishment by the British, to be slaves, for the supposed crimes they commited. Or the black Irish immigrants who left during the Black47 or the Black Irish planters who settled in Ulster and the term Black is still used as an insult to them (as in "he's as black as yer boot" to describe someone from Scottish descent whose ancestors were settlers. )

It's a pity seeing as those Irish who emigrated in America were called "Black Irish" by the "native" American population at the time. Maybe the poster who is ignorant of her history and not you..................

There were no Irish slaves. There were convicts and indentured servants, not slaves.

And the penal laws date from the 1600s, not the 1800s - in fact they were largely repealed by the time of Catholic Emancipation in 1829.

People from Shetland sound more Scandinavian than Scottish.

MaudGonneMad

There were no Irish slaves. There were convicts and indentured servants, not slaves.

The Irish slave trade began when 30,000 Irish prisoners were sold as slaves to the New World. The King James I Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold to English settlers in the West Indies. By the mid 1600s, the Irish were the main slaves sold to Antigua and Montserrat. At that time, 70% of the total population of Montserrat were Irish slaves. Ireland was the biggest source of human livestock for English merchants. The majority of the early slaves to the New World were actually Irish and from there (also) comes the term Black Irish

And the penal laws date from the 1600s, not the 1800s - in fact they were largely repealed by the time of Catholic Emancipation in 1829.

The Penal Laws were almost completely eliminated with the Government of Ireland Act 1920. Daniel O'Connell (who died in 1847) Spent most of his life fighting and campaigning against the Penal Laws.

Oh God, the Irish slaves thing. A lot of rubbish is spoken on that subject.

There's a guy called Liam Hogan who has debunked a lot of the 'Irish slaves' myth.

Irish slaves myth debunked here by Liam Hogan. It's a favourite myth of white supremacists and its alarming how it's making its way into the mainstream.

Penal Laws were abolished by the Gov of Ireland Act? Really? Which ones? Not so sure about that...

O'Connell's great success was with Emancipation in 1829. Which repealed the most substantive remaining Penal Laws. After that he turned his attention to repeal of the Act of Union (which is not a Penal Law) - that's what he spent the most of the rest of his life campaigning for.

Jazz, the dialects of Scots vary so much because of the different linguistic influences of the regions. In the north, they had previously been Pictish speakers, then Gaelic before they spoke Scots, with a heavy Old Norse influence (i8E314 is right in their observation above). This made their Doric dialect very different from the Lallans dialect in the south, e.g. Edinburgh, where the previous language was Cumbric, Gaelic was at least a second language for many, so that when Old English came along it was rapidly heavily flavoured with words from these languages, as well as Dutch, Flemish, and French due to our trading alliances with Northern Europe. This is where Scots diverged from Old English and went on to evolve in its own, unique way.

Some maintain that Doric should be considered a separate language from other dialects, but I'm not convinced the differences are sufficient to justify it.

There are also distinct Shetlandic and Orkney dialects who previously spoke Norn, as well as a south-west dialect where they previously spoke Cumbric and Galwegian Gaelic, a very distinct Gaelic dialect that was almost another language in itself.

The last branch of Scots is Ulster Scots, sometimes called 'Ullans', which came about with the influx of Scots speakers to Northern Ireland during the plantations, and again evolved in its own way.

MaudGonneMad
OT (I meant to say before that I love the username)

Penal Laws were abolished by the Gov of Ireland Act? Really? Which ones? Not so sure about that...

Sections 5.2 and 37.1 of the 1920 act, made Catholics, once more, eligible to occupy the office of Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, the British monarch's representative in Ireland. Viscount FitzAlan of Derwent became the first Roman Catholic Lord Lieutenant of Ireland since the penal laws banned it in 1685 only months after it passed.He was the first and last Lord Lieutenant seeing as in 1922 Ireland became the Free State (AFAIK)

I'll have a look at the link you so kindly gave me, thanks.

He was the first and last Catholic Lord Lieutenant

Jazz we/she speaks mainly English, but she she learned Irish at school in the east (Wicklow) and never learned that sound in Irish, when she sees the "Caoi" letters in Irish she hears Kee, I hear/read Kwee. Queeva feels wrong for her to say, no matter how many times we say it's like Queen!

Jazz WRT the decline in the Welsh language, it was because when the Education system was introduced in the mid 19th century it was all through English, and children were punished for speaking Welsh.

Google "Welsh Not" to see the history.

Imagine being only able to speak English but being sent to school where lessons were all in French? And if you spoke to any of your classmates, who also only understood English, in English you were given the cane? being told repeatedly that English was a "backward" language and punished for using it, when that was the only language that your family spoke.

Substitute Welsh for English and English for French and you have the situation in Wales 100-150 years ago

Can someone please explain what a " non specific origin name " is ?

Surely all names come from somewhere?

Oris this like the people who say " there's this woman in our street with an accent " when they actually mean " a diffenet accent from me " ?

So "non specific origin name " means "names from my own family / street / office " and anything else is weird .

They (not all of them) use the 12th of July as a "bigotfest" to impose their hatred on the Catholic (and therefore for them) Nationalist community.

Unfortunately their Bigotfest (love that expression) is not confined to Northern Ireland. We have our fair share of bigots from both sides of the community in Scotland too. Anyone who's ever seen a Rangers/Celtic match will have seen the Red Hand of Ulster flags and the Irish tricolours. We have orange marches too. It's awful, divisive and should be banned.

I walked past an Orange march in Glasgow last week. Ugh.

It annoys me so very much that these people have multiple marches throughout the year, that roads have to be closed for them, and most of all that it's facilitated by Glasgow City Council. No place for it in this day and age. None whatsoever.

LunaLoveg00d

It's not only ni or Scotland to be brutally honest.

Oh God, they've brought their knuckle dragging to Benidorm. And I thought Benidorm couldn't sink any lower.

squoosh

Apparently it's a traditional route

King Billy must have went on a lads holiday before going into battle at the Boyne 😂

Ah yes! I seem to remember reading that King Billy was a big fan of the five euro all you can eat Gut Buster breakfast!