In Scotland Wales and Ireland (UK bit)

[JazzAnnNonMouse]

Is it more common to have a very scottish Welsh Irish name or a more English easily pronouncible one in a say a class of kids?
Does this depend on areas eg close to borders are more anglicised? Or just those with english connections (family possible moves etc)
There are so many names that are so beautiful that I'd never heard of before reading them on here but theyre almost never pronounced how I expected

Foggy - presumably your mum speaks English too? How does she pronounce words like 'queen'?

Accents are so diverse across the UK and the little pockets of idioms etc that evolve in specific areas I love!

Eg someone up thread mentioned the Aberdeen dialect - how did it come about that that specific part has such a different way of saying things - so interesting! Aberdeen is the part I was born in. My mum and dad are English and had not a clue what people were saying to them at times!

Jolly it sounds as though Scots is around a generation behind the resurgence of Welsh. I hope it manages the same success.

My FIL (b1935) still worries slightly that it is more important for the children to learn English than Welsh for them to "get on" in life. When he was a child Welsh was only to be used at home, and for the lower classes. But my son, born in 2002, will be able to study the majority of a degree syllabus through the medium of Welsh if he decides to study in Wales. The progress since the 1960s with Cymdeithas yr Iaith etc has been enormous.

I lived in Aberdeen for a spell. The Doric was really interesting. I saw a woman having a big bust up with her boyfriend in the street when I first moved there and she was yelling "FIT? FIT?" at him. I thought they were arguing about fitness or him calling someone else "fit" as in good looking . Only realised later that she was saying "WHAT"?

I also heard "Quine" for woman and "loon" for man. Is it "loonies" for boys? I asked my boss if she had children and she said "two loonies". I loved it! So much more interesting than where we live now. It's a little vanilla in this particular part of the Home Counties, though I do like it here too in a different way. I'm Irish (if I'm allowed to say that as someone from NI) but am so homesick for Scotland! I'm homesick for NI too of course.

Why was there that attitide of not speaking Welsh? I'm glad it's resurged it's awful for the world to loose a language. There's so much history etc that would be lost if we lost them.

There's a set of recordings of ww1 soldiers on bbc website from all over the UK. The accents are so much stronger than they are now. The accent where I grew up (home counties) is almost totally lost. I could barely understand what they were saying! I'm sure there were words that have been lost too.

Jazz do you have a link to those recordings? I'd love to have a listen.

This is off topic, but what is the correct term for the island comprising Ireland and Northern Ireland?

Ireland 🙄

You need to remember that in Ireland, as a while, the Irish language was almost completely wiped out by the penal laws enforced by the English in the 1800s then with partition irish was marginalised by the unionist government in the 6 counties. 'Northern irish' became extinct in 1985/86 when the last native speaker died and it wasn't until 2000 when the EU stepped in to protect minority languages that it finally had some protection.

Irish names became popular in the late 1980s early 1990s in northern Ireland when there was a big push to 'regain our roots' but it is still looked at with suspicion by some unionists/twats under unionist guise.

Unfortunately our native language has been hijacked by politicians on both sides as a cultural war even though I do know many protestant children who learn irish . It proves that the conflict was never about religion as the media tried to paint it but about freedom, oppression and cultural identity.

The accent thing I was talking about isfrom the British Library not the BBC (maybe I read about it there and it linked to it)

It's pow speaking and I think this is the right link

sounds.bl.uk/Accents-and-dialects/Berliner-Lautarchiv-British-and-Commonwealth-recordings

Amalfi you are so right about the language being viewed suspiciously, and it is so sad. I know plenty of your stereotypical middle class, middle aged white protestants who view someone giving a child an Irish name as aggressive and bigoted and just can't see past all the crap to see that there is nothing wrong with wanting to hold on to your culture. The fact that these are often the same people who bang on about their Orange heritage being misunderstood and not bigoted at all is a huge irony...

Is northern irish (lauguagr) different to the rest of the Irish languagr?

What is orange heritage?

The Orange Order.

I can be completely shocked by your lack of knowledge about your own country if I want to be, it's probably not your fault but that doesn't make it less WTF.

I don't know about northern Irish as a particular type of the Irish language, as I am not knowledgeable enough on the Irish language.

But on the language as a whole, there is a big push to have Ulster Scots recognised as an actual language, rather than just a dialect. But again a lot of that could well be policital i.e. 'well they have a language, so we need one as well'.

Unfortunately due to our grim history, even our very language and culture become loaded with politics, instead of just 'ooh, this is interesting, wouldn't it be lovely if everyone learnt about the history of how we speak here'.

Or am I not allowed to say that because I'm late to the thread 😏

Don't worry I'll spend the rest of the day coming to terms with feeling fine that people who live in the same country as me have no idea that I actually live in the same country as them.

It is something I do find a little bit ironic about northern Irish unionism, it's so loud proud and British, there are people prepared to give their lives to be part of the U.K. and yet the rest of the union can barely remember they exist.

Donatella you can say what you like it's just boring and repetitive when the thread has moved on so much and become so interesting. Instead of being amazed at what I didn't know (you don't know what you don't know!) Have a read. Unless you're an expert in Scottish Irish Welsh language roots I guarantee you'll learn something too.

treaclesoda

Exactly, the same ones who still cry in the fetal position at the end of 'stormont I' no doubt, when the commoners knew their place and had no rightsuch, gerrymandering was the normalisation and you could be interned on a rumour.

Jazz There were regional dialects /sublanguages for each county in other news ireland and now the standard is donegal irish.

Orange heritage is the 'heritage' of those who identify with the orange order in Ireland, the orange order is present all over the island but a minority in the 6 counties seem to think that membership to the orange order means that they are able to offend, disrespect and do what they want, where they want. They are usually uneducated people (no offence to those who actually know their history) and completely ignore the fact that modern day republicanism was founded by protestants, who were seen as 'dissenters' by the British government and therfore fell foul of the penal laws which banned themy from voting, owning property etc

Donatella are you from northern ireland?
Out of interest is your news fairly well spread across news from NI Wales England and Scotland?

I live in England and the majority of the news is about England, some Scotland some Wales if they have a big story. I honestly hardly ever hear anything about NI.

But the most interesting thing on the thread to me was your ignorance.

I have a pretty good understanding of what I don't know, but thanks for your concern.

I live in NI and have a good understanding of the issues surrounding the Irish language and some of the history behind why people choose the names they do.

My Grandmother was also one of the last native speakers of her almost dead language.

So what I learned from this thread is that there maybe an issue with the coverage given to more recent British and Irish history and geography in schools and just in general.

I'm going to have to Google the orange order. I've never heard of it.

In history lessons at school in Wales Scotland and Ireland do you get taught Welsh Scottish Irish history? In England is very England centric. (Unless it's the Egyptians etc) it's basically kings and Queens victorians ww1 ww2 but not victorians in Ireland etc.

I must admit that my gast was very much flabbered at a British person not knowing which region of Ireland was part of the UK.

Top tip: It's written on the cover of your passport

I think youre right there is definately a lack of education re recent social politics across the country.

However repeatedly calling someone ignorant etc without any other input doesn't exactly make someone want to learn more about the thing they don't know about.

I've just got the weather on now (itv) and theyve got an image of temperatures 'across the UK' in the picture is Ireland but no temperatures on it and it basically just isn't included.

ah yes the ITV weather. I know people who stopped watching the ITV weather because they don't draw the border on the map of Ireland

JazzAnnNonMouse the Orange Order are a sectarian group who base their beliefs on religion more than anything else. Catholics are not allowed to join, members are not allowed to marry Catholics and I know of Orange men invited to Catholic weddings and who RSVPed no because they aren't allowed to associate with Catholics or set foot in Catholic Churches.

They (not all of them) use the 12th of July as a "bigotfest" to impose their hatred on the Catholic (and therefore for them) Nationalist community. Including stopping outside Catholic Churches and areas playing sectarian songs and antagonising the Catholic Community. Have a google of the Garvaghy Road protests and riots from the 1990's and more recently the Ardoyne protests from 2013 (which has cost the taxpayer, Scottish, Welsh, Northern Irish and British over £21 million ). You'll also see how they burn effigies of Catholics, suicide victims, the Pope and of a 16 murder victim of sectarian violence Michael McIlveen (as far as I remember this effigy was on a bonfire in close proximity to the McIlveen family home).

Be careful. You could also be flamed by an "important" Loyalist campaigner for not knowing your history. The same campaigner who wasted police and public resources when he saw a flag flying outside a primary school and claimed said school was an "IRA training camp" because of the flag

Pity said school was part of a EU cultural project and said flag was not the Irish Tricolour but the Italian Flag.....................................

is a good recent (ish) documentary on the Orange Order in Belfast