Jayden

[LBNM19]

Finding it really hard to pick a boys name, I've got a little boy called Louie and thinking of Jayden for this one could be shortend to J or middle name will be Joseph as that's my dads name so Jayden Joseph could also be JJ. Honest opinions please :)

There are many ideas about how to choose names for babies.

People ask for opinions here, other people give them.

Once your babies are named, its done, everyone else can get stuffed.

The trouble comes when parents of jadens anonymously meet jaden refuseniks and a woman considering the name jaden and a whole bunch of other bored people one sunday then WHOOSH.

Why defend those who are doing it then? I mean, seriously, why?

Because I don't think Spero was criticising the name - she was warning that some narrow-minded people would jump to assumptions based on a name like that. Remember this is someone who has created herself a career at the bar, I don't think she has a family background in the law. It was well meant advice.

And because I know from elsewhere that Spero is passionate about opportunity and education and social mobility and I genuinely think her point was misundertood.

Spero- whether or not your comment about Jaydons being a frequent name to go through the care system is true- what exactly did you expect to achieve by saying that!? It was ridiculous to suggest that just because of your experience, everyone would agree. I am a CM and looked after children with all sorts of different names, and I completely disagree with your very narrow minded, blinkered, and exceptionally unprofessional comments.

But I didn't say that did I?

I said some names were more represented in care proceedings than others. Some names I have never come across at all.

this is a verifiable fact. Mentioning it does not make me 'unprofessional' and more than saying that single mothers are more likely to live in poverty.

It is sadly a verifiable fact.

But saying that single mothers are much more likely to be poor than mothers with partners does not mean I am saying that single mothers are scum.

Just as saying that I would not chose Jayden as a name for my child does not mean that all who do are doomed to lives of poverty and misery and to be in care.

If you seriously think I have acted unprofessionally then you must make a formal complaint about my behaviour, which I will defend. I honestly cannot see what I have done which is worthy of even one page of the anger and vitriol expressed here.

I will be easy enough to find after the activities of a certain politician and the Daily Mail. Or if you can't find me, PM me and I will give you my name.

A lot of the posts on this thread have been exceptionally personally critical about peoples' children, in a way that they would never be in real life.

I have never met any of the children of anyone on this thread, so it beggars belief that you could suggest I or anyone else has been 'personally critical' about people's children.

I wouldn't chose the name Jayden. I have explained why. This is not being 'personally critical' of anyone's child and that is just a ludicrous suggestion.

I make an effort not to judge someone before I get to know them but it would be unreal and dishonest to suggest that names, addresses, the way people dress, the way people talk do not create impressions on me before I get to know the person.

This has nothing to do with me having a 'working class' background and thus being obsessed with class, as I think was the charming suggestion earlier.

I think everyone does that, to a greater or lesser degree.

I read to page 20 and felt the need to step in! I live in N.Ireland. some of the class stuff does go over my head and I would n't necessarily know what names have which class connotations, Liam anyone?

That might be because the over riding prejudice here with respect to names (first and surnames) revolves around religious/cultural background. In defence of Spero I couls take her entire first post and re-write it for Irish names and it would hold true. I agree with what she says because my children are judged (as I knew they would be) on their Irish names. Perhaps not always negatively judged but their background is immediately obvious. But i chose them because I love the names and I'm proud of my Irishness, other family members took Spero's suggested approach and gave their kids 'neutral' names. I respect those decisions too. I would be foolish to think I have not left them open to a little bit of prejudice in their futures and I cannot deny that possibility (in areas that are not legislated for need I add). Shooting the messenger for stating facts wont change anything, if youare concerned about class perceptions then neutralise the name, if you're proud of your class reflect your pride with a name even if the 'other side' condenmn it. (Ps the class bashing does seem to be a 2 way street!)

Just to clarify re Spero's example: replacing non MC with irish names would be about a different issue than the care system (I am NOT suggesting taht kids with Irish names are more likely to be in care!) e.g boys brigade or something with quite British connotations....

For me Spero, whilst what you said may have been a verifiable fact, I am happy to take your word on that, to say that has serious connotations, you were almost implying more Jayden's are in someway neglected/abused, because they end up going through the care system. As I said, whether that's a true reflection of what happens or not, I don't know, but to say that on a public forum, you must acknowledge how that would offend some. Hence my unprofessional comment.

In the same way, I am a CM, before that I was a nursery manager, and TA. I have come across a fair amount of children, I could easily categorise children, and say certain groups of children, with specfic names are naughty, have behavioural problems, and become young offenders, but I wouldn't dare, because it's such a massive unrepresentative remark.

I don't know if that was a very well made point or not. But in essence, what I believe, whether it's a fact or not, I think there are some things better not said.

Hello OP...
I haven't read the whole thread but here is my ha'porth...
If you like the name, jolly well go and use it! I am sort of assuming that you have a doubt or two, that's why you posted in the first place. However please remember that it is your dc, and you will love them to tiny shreds, and even if you give them a name about which you are not unequivocally thrilled in the future (speaking from personal experience here, named my son something which I am fairly sure would be negatively labelled on mn but loved it plus the reaction it garnered, naughty moi), it is going to be a word which you use to describe somebody you adore...mostly anyway, to be realistic.
People make their future. Not their names. Truly.
And in the words of that great sage.... those who mind don't matter, and those who matter don't mind.

AM188 - I take your point. I apologise again for offence and upset I have caused - which has clearly been great, whether or not I agree that it is based on anything rational.

I am not a troll, I do not post deliberately to inflame or upset and I hope that is clear from the fact that I have not changed my user name in the 6 years I have posted here.

When I post it is because I genuinely think I have something to offer the debate. I don't expect people always to agree with me, I try not to get upset if people do disagree with me.

But I do - as would most people - get annoyed, frustrated and upset to be attacked with such sustained venom for things I did not say and did not mean.

But you have made your point calmly without resorting to abuse or unfair personal attacks, so thank you for that and I will certainly take it on board for the future.

back to the OP's choice of name...

People will think he's a Labrador

OP, the only Jake I know is indeed a Labrador. A brown one, very solid and barrelly. So when I read Jake I did immediately think of Jake the Lab. Sorry!

Jacob is lovely. Do you definitely want a 'J' name - let me consult the Baby names book that is on my desk right now - what about:

Jace
Jaime
Jalen/Jalon
Jamar/Jamel
Jared
Jarrett
Jason
Jarvis
Jensen
Joah
Jolyon
Jonah
Jonas
Joshua
Josiah
Jupiter (DH seriously considered this)
Jurgen

my faves, for what it's worth, are Jared, Jason and Jarvis.

Love Jonah from your list River.
Jace on teen mom was put into hes Grandmothers care though so I don't think op will go there!

My Cocker Spaniel is called Jarvis I cant picture it on a person now.

I love Jasper, but that was my grandads cat!

A friend had a Golden retriever called Hannah, a great big dribbling fool of a dog.
Bleeeugh

We have a lab called Penelope! Jarvis is a family name for us back in the 1700s not sure I would use it for a child though.

I find all this going on about Spero's remarks really odd.
It has been said time and time again, that no one is claiming that everyone or even most people with a particular name will face a certain outcome in life, whether this is being in care or becoming a high court judge.
All of the comment a being made are generalisations about the outcomes for people with particular names. They are based on samples of thousands and thousands of people with those names, and are not individual predictions. Whilst it is not true that everyone with a particular name will end up in care (and anyone determined to be offended and take the comments as meaning this, seem daft to me) it will be true that certain names are statistically more likely to see their recipients in care, or as high court judges etc etc. These are simply statistical facts.
So if the OP likes the name Jayden, she can choose it without fear it means her boy will end up in care. It does not mean this. Jayden's maybe more highly represented amongst those in care (or not, I have no idea) but the the vast majority won't be in this position.

Some people are more aware of class connotations than others, as this thread shows. Several people have said that in real life, they have never met anyone who ,emotions or seems aware of the class implications of name choice. I don't know if this in itself says something about class or not. I do know that those choosing Jayden as a name might feel equally horrified at the idea of calling their child Horatio, as those calling theirs Sebastian might feel about Jayden.
Many people are aware of class connotations, but don't discuss them openly in real life. They do t want to be seen as snobby or judgemental, but most of us harbour a bit of that in our hearts. Here on an anonymous forum, we can be open about our prejudices. The OP asked for options and people gave them, including Spero. I really don't think she should be flamed for expressing her view and I don't think it should be seen as dangerous either. It might make people think about names in a way they haven't before. It may make people more determined to avoid certain names or less so. This is simply an area for debate.

I was sent a message by a very wise mumsnetter suggesting that this might be such a trigger issue because some people do fear care proceedings and the involvement of the state, whereas I in my position of both legal and professional privilege do not have such a fear - if a social worker turned up at my door, I know I could deal with it.

I accept that argument and that I have probably been insensitive to blithely use care proceedings as examples to support my assertions.

In my defence, I used them because it's what I know, it's been my job for 15 years. Not to try to make anyone feel like shit.

But it has been a very good lesson in the need to be more thoughtful on a forum made up of people from so many different walks of life and different experiences - I just wish some people were less aggressive and offensive in how they expressed their upset and annoyance because the sheer amount of vitriol on display has probably elongated this thread by 15 more pages than was necessary.

This is getting circular.

Is there anything else to be gained now? (Apart from the rather handsome lancashire heeler pup which I am >< this close to putting a deposit on thanks to this thread)

I'm deciding which pet would suit the name Ptolemy, as I didn't use it for ds5.

But I don't think my DH will let me get another pet. Hmmmmm, new husband called Ptolemy instead?

Can I have it for my new heeler please? I'd love to yell that on the common I went looking for a dog to fit the name Jupiter, but that would be a pus for a heeler....

Sorry for my role in increasing circularity.

Usuals response to my post shows that there is indeed absolutely nothing to be gained but continued wear upon my typing thumbs, which are quite sore at the moment as you can imagine.

But Fid, if you end up with a new pup then something lovely has come out of this festering train wreck. Just don't give it a name that one of your friends is already using as a loving nickname for his baby, as I find that tends to introduce a certain froideur into the friendship...