Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate VI

[Coffeeandchocolate]

Time for a new thread, ladies. May it continue to give us comfort, and help us find a special, sunny place in our hearts, where our babies are safely tucked in. May it bring good luck to everyone who posts or justs reads.

And to the old-timers, it?s so lovely to still have you here with us, reaching out.

Lisbeth and Allways; Bee here.
I too have lost an alleged friend.
My experiences have shaped how I define the word in fact.
It has a whole new meaning.
Loss of friendship is hard to manage alongside loss of babies. I feel often as if I am on the periphery of people and not in the hub.
I too am thinking of Jools and checking to see if she is here. We will catch you if you fall - do not be scared of posting. This little thread has never yet been invaded by judgey types. Ever.
Hope everyone okay.
I am a bit fed up to be honest.
Bee xxx

Hello Lovely Ladies

I have been reading a little and digesting but I'm afraid not up to individual posts. For me, its been a rough old time. The IVF is actually going well and according to plan at the moment with the follicles growing and the drugs doing what they are supposed to. The problem is my DH has left. Yes, you read that correctly. Its a long story and I am exhausted from telling it but essentiallly I belive he is exhausted after two years of trying to make me happy when cirumstance - the relocation to Oz, first baby, conception, ectopic, recent termination, a previous close friendship he developed with someone at work (who lived in a different city) which I don't believe was an affair but not wholly appropriate level of frienship which left me 'punishing' him....all of which left me reeling and somehow unable to make myself happy or take responsibility for it. I see this now but didn't then. And after a huge argument I think he just had a brain snap and is hugely angry with me and fed up of being the one that lifts us up. I hope he will be back. He is coming home tomorrow but I'm not sure if this is to stay. SO. I am now nostalgic for the pain I felt after the termination. That seems easy compared to that and this. I have very supportive friends and have been and will continue to see a counsellor. I should have done this before. I see a lot of things differently now, its been a huge jolt back to reality. So. We will continue with IVF but put any eggs 'in the freezer'. Not looking forward to that conversation but I guess it must have happened before. I feel on one level the worst I have ever felt but on another level this has really bought me back to see that I am fundamentally a joyous, happy, excited person that has lost her way, her sense of self and her responsibility for herself and whatever happens I will get the person I was back. Will keep you posted. In a lovely way, please can I ask you not to make comments about what you think of DH behaviour?? He has had his part to play in getting to where we are but I kind of do see why he has reached this point even though I am angry at the way it has manifested itself through lack of communication on his part. Just don't want this to be a 'what a bastard' type thread or change the focus from the proper reason for the thread, and he is not, he is an amazing man who has endured a lot of pressure for both of us and has finally lost it. I hope I haven't lost him and if he does come back I feel quite excited about the life we could have together.

Never a dull moment huh?? I could almost laugh its such a sorry tale. Even the counseller nearly spit out her coffee when I told her our history, what has happened and then as an afterthought said, oh yes and I forgot to say we are in the middle of IVF!

The only possible upside of the last week has been the loss of 10 pounds and my muffin top. But not a diet I would recommend.

xx

Good Golly Scrumdiddly
What an enormous amount for your body and soul to comprehend, dear girl. You sound very wise and self aware. You sound ready to accept your part in the meltdown. You sound sad, sad, sad. You sound as if you love him.
I am divorced from my first husband. I had three children with him and the whole baby making fiasco has been to try and create a baby with my new partner who has no children.
Why am I telling you?
Well, because I know exactly what you mean about not wanting people to slander him, to call him a bastard. You two have been through such enormous upheaval and it would be astonshing if there were not some fallout from all this. It also sounds as if there is hpe. These traumas, baby loss, termination, IVF; they can really help us to focus on what we have and what we need and what is precious. He sounds precious to you honey.

He maybe needs time to process what has happened, to lick his wounds, to realise that you and his child are vital to him.
Take each day at a time ( where have I heard that before?) and if you need to talk, well I am happy to talk about marital meltdown.
All is not lost.
Thinking of you and sending positive love vibes down to Oz.
Ps cannot help but be envious of the muffin top... does this make me a bad woman?
Bee xxx

Hey Scrum, glad you've got support through all this. Certainly no judgement here re: DH's behaviour. It's such a hard time for you both. I must say though that any man who goes to the effort of arranging what DH did for your 40th loves his lady dearly. DH and I have left each other briefly once or twice over the years, but we have only grown stronger for it, and now I feel we are virtually indestructible. Sometimes I think it was just the wake-up call we needed to get back on track at the time. Take care Scrum xxx

Scrum - I just wanted to say I hope today passes peacefully and that when DH comes home tomorrow (for however long that may be) that you are both able to speak openly and fully with each other. I wish you all the best - you sound almost serene.
xx

On a selfish note, I needed to get out what I've learned in the last few days about our situation. Not for any other reason other than it's sat in my head festering.
Adam's Downs (and probably his AVSD - heart defect) was rare and caused by an unbalanced Robertsonian translocation between chromosomes 14 and 21. Only about 4% of Downs is caused by this.
25% of those who have this translocation have it because one of their parents is a carrier. 97% of the carriers (as far as I can tell) are the mothers.
So the long and the short of that is that if it was inherited then almost certainly it was me and that means I'll have to break it to my mum and two brothers that they may also be carriers (and my dad who I don't have any contact with) and possibly even more of my family depending on how far back it goes.
I keep waking up in the middle of the might imagining how on earth I'm going to tell them - it's not my fault but it's not something I relish either.
The good news (!) is that if I am a carrier then the chance of it recurring seems to be about 15% but I'm not sure about that as our consultant said it might be as high as 50% chance of it happening in another pregnancy.
My mum keeps telling me to stay away from Google - I think I'm going to have to and just wait for the results from the geneticist at the beginning of September it just feels like a very, very long time away.

Grr jsut lost a really long post.

Scrum, wanted to say how unsurprised I am - not at you personally but our situation is so full of grief and fear that I'm surprised people stay together through it. I can't count the no of times I've thought of leaving. ANd for our DDHs they can actually walk away from our pain. I often wonder why my DH stays - he's younger than me, he could have an entire family with a 30 something fecund, happy woman yet he stays and I don't know why. I constantly have dreams where he's left and it never surprises me. Not saying this is what your DH will do by any means but jsut that it's so easy to understand why. ANd also why now - yes it's crap timing re the IVF - he could have done it before/afterwards but trying again - esp with the extra stress of IVF - means the possibilty of more pain and maybe he just isn't ready for more. Or to see you suffer more. SO not a bastard at all.

My sis is currently undergoing a divorce - she says one of the main reasons is 2 miscarriages (only a t8 weeks thoyugh, nothing like our situations) and infertility. ALthough they do have a gorgeous 2 year old now the damage was done.

I look back at DH and my wedding and think god if only we knew what was coming and also that we were actually happy then. And ahd a lagh and enjoyed life. It's only 5 years ago and we're so miserable, stuck, libidoless. We never socialise as everyone has a baby the age of Ben or is about to have one and we're too low. We're both on antidepressants both angry and frustrated.

Sorry - didn't mean to go on about my marriage but wanted to synpathise and say this is what the crap we've been dealt has brought us to. I sometimes think it would be better if he did leave.

ANyway I'm so sorry, I so hope when he comes home tomorrow he stays. Maybe having frozen eggs will give him the time he so obviously needs. You say you're havoing counselling, is he? I ask because although I can't get anything moving with my nhs counselling Dh ahs already had 2 free sessions with work and I think it has helped him, jsut to vent.

Hoping to hear something mroe positive tomorrow.

Sorry for all the typos

We had the funeral today but felt absolutely nothing. Spent the entire ceremony being irritated by the fact that the chaplain did a very christian ceremony. As a lapsed Catholic I will defend catholicism to the hilt against any attackers but sadly it brings out the teenager in me in those kind of situations. It felt totally inappropriate. Also she forgot the gender and had to keep saying things like "the child" instead of him. And when she said "this child was made with so much love" all I could think was "well actually it was money and effort really not love". I don't know what to think about this - so many people on here have found such succour in having a funeral whereas for us it felt like nothing. I dont' klnow if I've become a cold monster or am just beyond grief. HAvig said that I did feel very down ion the lead up over the last few days. DD put a sprig of lavender on the coffin which was very sweet. The chaplain also annoyed me before we started by telling DD that mummy might be upset and that she had to look after me. Not the responsibiliyt of a 2 year old!

Anyway tis done, he lies there next to - or near to at least - his half brother Ben and please god we don't have to go through it again. I actually find it very difficult to separate out the two babies in my head as everything was so similar. Feels a bit like a rerun of last year.

Lisbeth, I can't believe you ahev tow ait til sept to see the geneticist. We are seeing one in a couple of weeks. GOing to post this and continue as computer getting v hot and don't want to lose it..

Anyway... that's a long time to not google and think things are worse than they are (although that may feel impossible) I can't say much re your odds but look at me - I had a 0.01% chance of a fatal heart disease and then a 1 in 13 000 chance of BW syndrome and still lost 2 babies. So maybe 15% is high but then maybe there are things you can do to avoid being that 15%.

Thinking now is the time (post a glass or 2 of wine) to write about my friendship losses; I have laost one good friend along the way although looking back I wonder how much of a friend she ever was. She was quite good through the first loss but then incredibly insensitive once she got pg. With this last loss I rang and she replied by text to say she couldn't speak as she was packing for her holiday. ANd now 2 months later keeps asking me how I am with big eyes whenever I see her as part of a group.

I was very bitter for a while but forgave 3 childless friends for their lack of interst/compassion as I realised they didnt have a clue what I was going through.

What I did realise when I lost Ben though was that I have lots of wonderful women around me - and lots of friendships have been cemented. ANd I have made new friends - a woman i scarcely know was due the same day as me - when I came back form my holiday I discovered her baby had died at 21 weeks and we have met up a few times since. I just think you lose the chaff when big things like this happen. People can't handle it - that's their inadequacy and I don't need them. Neither do you......

ANyway enough witter.

Allways, don't stress too much, I know that every day and every scan feels like it counts with IVF but there is time and you will get there. You have eggs and you've conceived twins, habg in there.

Bee - cheers.

Gosh I really and truly killed the thread!

Just wondering how Scrum and ALlways are...

Hello ladies, just wanted to say a quick hello. I haven't been keeping up with how you all are, and after a quick look here there seems to be a fair few names I don't know. I'm so sorry when new Mummies turn up here - but at least this is 'somewhere' to go.
I just randomly clicked 'play' on the song we had for Daisy's funeral (why did I do that?) and the tears started straight away. Music really hits the memory button doesn't it. And it made me want to come here and say hello, and say another thank you to everyone who supported me here through the loss of Daisy and subsequent pregnancy of Franklin.
(He's doing really well by the way, 6 months now and very cute - My Mum has nicknamed him 'sunbeam' for his smiles.)
So lots of love to all of you, big hugs for those going through dark days. And special thoughts for our little angels.
Is the cottage still occupied? Anyone put the kettle on recently?

Love Lins xxxxx

I'm reading and lurking - I can't think of anything to say at the moment. My brain's numb and I'm trying to get used to the idea of carrying a duff gene - in case that's what it is.

Peanut - I'm sorry that you felt so disconnected at the funeral - you've been through so much though. You're not cold you're just responding entirely understandably to a massive mountain of emotional pressure. I'm also sorry you also lost a friend. She sounds like my friend - what struck a note with me was the big eyes in a group to show how much she really (would like other people to think she) cares. Or maybe that's just my friend who seems very concerned about the appearance of being a friend rather than actually just being one.

Lisbeth, I think PH has a point about statistics being a bit unhelpful for individual cases - the two separate problems I had were very very statistically unlikely to happen but they did. Can see though that a starting out high risk is scary.. really hoping this isnt genetic (did you say it was 25% likely to be genetic? if so, overwhelmingly likely it isnt?)

Peanut, I think I felt similarly numb at my two funerals, as well. Funnily enough I cried about the losses this week, out of the blue, looking at photos of DD from the times of the terminations, and remembering how numb I felt then. I think we feel numb because there is so much emotion we can't even begin to release it, and numb is the only option. Gradually the feelings leak out therapeutically...

Scrum, your post about your relationship was so emotionally self-aware. How are you both now? God, it's so hard, the effect of failed pregnancies. The legacies are so far-reaching, it isnt 'just' the loss itself.

Allways, sorry to hear about the setback - hope things are back on track with the IVF. How is it affecting you physically/emotionally?

Hi Lins. Lovely to hear about Franklin! Six months since we were waving pompoms for him and you. Wow.

And hello Bee, sorry you are sad... where are you at the moment? are you ready to share?

I've lit the fire in the cottage, and baked a banana bread loaf, and put the kettle on...

Can't - that's right - 25% chance it's genetic and so far more likely to happen again. At my more rational I see that this means 3 times out of 4 it's not genetic and that it would be likely to be only a 1% chance of happening again.

And then I think about all the figures and chances we've been given so far (the chance of Adam having Downs, the chance of it being an 'easy' labour, the chance of Adam being breech, the chance of not getting an infection post delivery and the chance of Adam being one of the 3-4% of Downs sufferers who have a translocation) and I think we've been unlucky at each and every hurdle and I don't feel as though we're lucky and so it's best to prepare for what feels like the inevitable when we're unlucky again. DH tells me it doesn't work like that (that there's no such thing as luck) but it certainly doesn't feel like it.

Hello.

I am a very very old timer, and many of you won't know me at all. I was around at the begining of the thread, but my real life just took me away from here. There was no way I would insult your experiences by posting in passing, and I couldn't seem to find the head and soul space to give what was needed.
But I have it all for you, I just haven't the tools to communicate it at the moment

I just popped on, I think about you ladies. The ones I know a little about, and the certain knowledge there are newer names and more to come.

I have happy/heavy memories of the cottage, it's fine furnishings and blazing fires.

I just wanted to say that. Someone you don't even know is, right now, sat in her bed crying for your pain. I'm so glad this little corner of the world continues to be a superb place to build such a safe haven cottage.

Tree, thank you. Your post has touched me in a way I can't express. The imagery of the cottage, warm and comfortable, where emotions are safe is something I need right now.

Cant, thanks for putting the kettle on and baking.

I'm very low at the moment, not in a good place at all, but I can see the warm glow of the cottage.

Hello Tree, hugs back at you, from one old timer to another.

Allwaysdoingsomething - I'm another person who is out there, thinking of you all, and sharing tea and cake in the cottage. Very sorry you are feeling low, it's tough isn't it. Hugs to you too. xxxx

Hello all. I'm not sure whether this is the right thred for me as I'm much earlier down the line than any of you, but I'm looking for a bit of comfort and I don't know where to turn. Maybe you know of other threds that you can direct me to?

My DH and I have just started ttc our first baby, and being the super cautious person I am, I took myself off for a genetics appointment, just to confirm what I already knew, what I've been told all my life, that my [relatively minor] congential defects are just one of those one off things and I'm at no higher risk of having an affected baby than anyone else.

Well, it didn't really turn out like that. The doctor, assuming I already knew, blithely announced that in her opinion everything I'd been told before was wrong and she thinks it's likely that it's a genetic condition and any baby I have has a 50/50 chance of being affected, but she can't say how severely that might be. She's taken blood tests, and these may give result which could lead me to being able to have CVS or amnio and then the option of a termination if the baby was affected, or they might not be able to identify the chromosomal defect, in which case they won't be able to test for it and could only try to see if there are any problems at the 20 wk scan.

It's totally not what I expected to hear and I'm struggling to get my head around it. I'm very weepy and angry and frustrated, and desperately worried about the impact on my DH, who is being fabulous but I feel like he's inadvertantly got stuck with damaged goods (more damaged than he realised when he married me) and that it might get all too much for him to deal with.

Wombat, just in case you're checking here I've posted a reply on your other thread; hope all goes well for you.

But in terms of the feelings of being 'damaged goods' - your DH married you because of the person you are. Not for your future childbearing abilities, but because of your personality, looks, attitude; the fact that he wants to spend time with you. However he no doubt will find it difficult that YOU are upset by this, as no-one wants to see the person they love in pain; and he may have concerns the same as yours about what issues may have to be faced if it did turn out there was a genetic condition. Also if he feels he should be supporting you he may find it more difficult to talk about his own feelings. So I think it can be really helpful to have someone in RL who knows the full facts, who can offer support to you both if that is possible; this is what we found when I lost my little girl last summer.

Really hope it works out OK for you.

Gosh Wombat33 that must have been such a shock and I am sure your feelings about being 'damaged' are a normal part of dealing with this kind of information. For what it's worth, when I found out I was carrying a baby with major problems, even though I have no genetic issues, that same thought occurred to me and was one of the things (alongside grieving for the 'perfect' child etc.) that I had to work through (and I did manage to).

You have so much on your plate right now that I do think you need some more support, if you can get it, to deal with it all.

I think it is brilliant that you were so brave to deal with it head on and I think that means that even though you might have a rough road ahead, your bravery will stand you in good stead (even if you don't feel it at the moment) and is probably one of the very good reasons your husband married you.

You have also given yourself so much more time to deal with all the difficult emotions that will surface and also become an expert on what you can do over the coming weeks. I had just a few days to assimilate an enormous amount of information when I discovered my baby's problems and it was very hard indeed.

I always mention them, but do get in contact with the people at ARC - they deal with a lot of people who discover they have genetic issues and have to make difficult choices. They have a forum where people are discussing the exact same issues as yours which you might find supportive and useful.

Numptymum and Lucy thank you so much for your kind posts. Am now sitting bawling at my desk at work . Thankfully we have individual offices so no one's spotted it yet! I'll pull my self together eventually :) it's just still a bit raw at the moment.

I am so sorry that you have both gone through really difficult times. I hope life is being kinder to you now. It sounds like even though things have been really tough you are coping well. That gives me confidence that we can get through whatever lies in store.

Hello ladies, I've been away for a couple of weeks and I am so sorry to come back to so much sadness, dark times again for our thread.

Wombat, don't worry about the title of the thread, you will get support and good advice here. I am afraid I can't offer too much support as I have no experience of what you are going through, it must be so hard and frustrating. It seems to me though like you are doing the right thing, gathering as much information as possible and coming to terms with this idea and also thinking about possible solutions. I completely agree with Numpty, you are not "damaged", and you are not defined by this genetic problem you had no choice about. When will you have the test results back? Can you also get a second opinion?

There were so many things I wanted to say to you all ladies, but I am humbled by your experiences and I am lost for words, nothing of what I say could actually make a difference. I can only say that I am thinking of you all, and I hope this space continues to offer comfort.

Tree, we haven't actually "spoken" to each other, but back in February and March, when I was so very raw after losing my baby girl, I read back a lot and some of your posts were like balm for a nasty wound. The most poignant for me was one in which you said that every life, no matter how tiny, leaves a trace, a shadow, and means something. The discussion started I think after someone asked if ants have a shadow... Even now I have tears in my eyes writing that. Thank you for saying it.

Scrum, how are you? You have been through so much, I hope you and your dh will find a way to get back together. I agree with what the others have said, he does sound like he loves you, and you do sound like you love him, and you are very self-aware and talk about it. It must have been so overwhelming for him, in a different way than for you, and I remember what he said once that he feels like he is losing you too, not only a baby. It is so much to come to terms with, for both of you, but I am hoping and praying you will overcome this.

Allways, a big hug for you too. You are so brave and so strong.

And a good thought for Peanut as well, I am sorry I can't offer any better words.

Thinking of you all xxxx

Hi everyone. Scrum, where are you? Am worried by your silence. Thinking of you.

Hi Wombat. How stressful that consultation must have been. I really hope the genetics experts can give you more positive advice - and certainly more specific advice about specific chromosomal risks. Hopefully you just met a pessimistic doctor this time around. The waiting is horrible, though. Could you ask about whether PGD might be possible if the worst-case 50/50 risk did turn out to be correct?

Allways and Lisbeth, how are you? And Peanuthead?

I am tired, and can't find words to offer any comfort to you all. I am thinking of you though. Tree, if you're reading, hello. I miss you.

PGD? Is that pre-implatation genetiic diagnosis? I'm not up on all the terms yet :). If that's what it means, yes, I will ask. In my shock at the consultation on Monday I failed to ask a whole host of useful questions but I'm now keeping a list for next time and have put that one on it! I spoke to the lovely ladies at ARC yesterday (thanks for the recommendation) and they explained that in order to take this route the condition has to be on the HFEA approved list. At the moment we don't know what condition we're dealing with (only that it's manifestation in me apparently mitigates in favour of it being a dominent genetic abnormality), so I suspect whether we can get a pre-implantation screen will depend on whether they manage to identify the exact cause, but it's definitely something to investigate - thanks for the suggestion.