Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate VI

[Coffeeandchocolate]

Time for a new thread, ladies. May it continue to give us comfort, and help us find a special, sunny place in our hearts, where our babies are safely tucked in. May it bring good luck to everyone who posts or justs reads.

And to the old-timers, it?s so lovely to still have you here with us, reaching out.

Thought I'd let you all know, my regional genetics service arranged for a counsellor to call me today as they thought I might need some support after Monday's consultation. I sobbed all the way through talking to her and she wasn't able to give me any good news (sort of the opposite in fact in that she told me (i) that the consultant I saw has been discussing me with all her colleagues and they all agree with her initial diagnosis that it's probably a dominant genetic condition that carries a 50/50 risk for any pregancy and (ii) that both the hospitals which treated me as a child and did all the tests that were available then have destroyed my notes as its such a long time ago) but I do feel much more supported and understand bit more about the process ahead. Apparently I should get my first set of chromosome analysis results in about 4 weeks so that's the next staging post on my journey.

I am sorry that the counsellor didn't give you more positive news, Wombat. But glad that they followed up with you and are thinking of you.

If it helps at all, and it probably doesn't, I have been pregnant 4 times. I have 2 healthy DDs and lost 2 babies to conditions incompatible with life, which makes a 50% success rate. No explanation for the 2 losses, other than 'bad luck', but for me it has been 50/50 too - and I've got through it and have 2 lovely little girls. 50/50 is crap but it still means it's as likely to work out as not, if you see what I mean.

Having said the above positive spin, I do realize how devastated you must be and I am not at all trying to belittle that, only to try to offer some comfort. I appreciate how terrifying it feels. I am glad you have found us.

Thank you cantdothisagain. I'm so sorry you've been through such a lot but I really appreciate you sharing your experience. It reminds me that I'm not alone in having to face tough times, for whatever reason they come about. It's lovely to hear you have two little girls now. And you are right, 50/50 is as great a chance of everything being fine as not. I'm trying to take comfort in that. I'm very glad I've found you all too!

Hello ladies, apologies in advance for a very selfish post, but I am not in good place at the moment. It just hit me all of a sudden, massive guilt again, and again I can't stop wondering "what if there was a chance my baby would have been ok in the end?" What did I do? At the end of the day, there are cases when the prognosis is poor, but the babies are healthy. What tortures me most is that we didn't ask for any further tests, we just took what we were told for granted, they were so convinced it was very bad that they didn't offer any further scans.

My dh has come to terms with it all very well. He keeps on saying that even if somehow all the abnormalities disappeared before birth, her brain would have already been severely affected in a crucial phase of its development. The doctors believe that it all started very early, in the first trimester, when the brain cells started to multiply.

And still, I don't seem to be able to come to terms with our decision. I still wonder if there wasn't a tiny chance she would not have been affected. I still wonder how it would be if she was here with us now, 2 months old, and it's tearing me apart. Will I ever get over this guilt? Did I fail her? what kind of mother have I been, giving up my baby, not fighting for her, not believing in any chance? I was so scared of going over 22 weeks, the cut-off point for the injection in the heart, that I maybe failed to see the bigger picture.

I know I wrote about it all here before, but it's all so raw again. I just can't seem to move on. I can't focus on this pregnancy, I haven't separated it in my mind from the first. It's like I am just heading for the same outcome, a second time, and I sometimes wonder if this baby hasn't already been affected,in an indescribable way, by my lack of faith and my negative frame of mind. Am I failing him or her too already?

I am going on an on... sorry for no personals this time, but all this has come out of the blue and I can't think properly.

Oh coffee I'm so sorry to hear you so down. I obviously can't answer from personal experience, I'm sure some of the other lovely ladies on here will be along shortly, but I didn't want to leave your post unanswered. For what it's worth, I think the very fact that you are so devoted to each of your babies and so concerned to do the right thing by them is evidence that you have in no way failed or are failing either of them. The depth of the anguish you are obviously feeling only illustrates how much you love them and I am certain that on the basis of that love and care you took the best decision you were able to take at the time. No one could ever do more than that. You ask what kind of mother you are. I think the answer to that is you are the kind of mother who puts her children first, and in doing so puts herself through great pain to spare her child from suffering. I think that makes you the best kind of mother there is.

Hi Coffee, I am sorry to hear you're struggling too.

FWIW, I think struggling before the 12 week nuchal is par for the course. And thinking back - when I was pregnant after my first termination, I worried nonstop that I had been too quick to accept my first baby's condition and had somehow jinxed myself for a future pregnancy. That isn't exactly how I felt, but I felt, sort of, that I deserved a problem because I hadn't tried hard enough to save my baby. Illogical because she couldn't live anyway, but I felt bad about not waiting for amnio to explain why she couldnt live (couldnt have CVS as placenta was in the wrong place).

The time before the nuchal scan is very hard and brings everything to the surface, contradictory, messy things.

You know what though? Part of me will never come to terms with what I did in terminating my 2 babies. Even though I don't think I was wrong. I just can't accept that I did it. I think it's all part of the grieving, and the hurt, and the confusion. I think you need to not beat yourself up about feeling confused, just go with the flow.

And you have given so much of yourself to Silvia - you ARE a natural mother, and you are amputated by losing her. You certainly haven't hurt this little one by not believing - I never fully believed in this little 4 month old baby lying next to me until she arrived. Oh and I never had faith in my 2nd lost baby, either, and felt like you. Then when I realized she would never live, I realized it isnt about faith, it's about love - and while I didnt believe she would exist, I loved her and it cut me in bits to lose her. All very messy. It will feel easier, calmer, after Monday.

It's so quiet here. I am worried about Peanut, Allways, Lisbeth, and particularly Scrum at the moment.

Hi Cant Am here am lurking, but not in a good place right now and not got the wherewithal to respond to Wombat's horrible situation. Think the funeral finally hit me and also saw the consultant this week and it wasn't good news but too damn tired to post anything just utterly done in.

Hi to Tree- sa thinking about you and your egglet and thinking it must have hatched by now and wondering how it all turned out..

Hope we all get the energy to post and support each other again soon...

Thank you Wombat and Cantdo, it helps so much to read your words. Today seems, so far, to be a slightly better day. I was surprised how sudden it all came back to me yesterday - and Cantdo, it is so "reassuring" (not the right word, but I can't find another) to know that no matter what the prognosis is, the feelings are pretty much the same. You are right, I'm not sure either there is a way of coming to terms with what we did, maybe all we can hope for is peace, for most of the time? Can we avoid these feeling coming back to haunt us every now and then? Probably not.

It sometimes helps me if I manage to find a somewhat "philosophical" approach. It doesn't always work, but sometimes I am able to think of my baby as a separate being from me, with her own fate - again words fail me, as I'm not sure fate is the best word, I am not sure I believe in fate actually. Anyway, I know I made a decision for her and I can only hope it was the best decision, although every so often I have doubts. And maybe by making this decision I spared her suffering, a worse fate... I don't think I'm making too much sense, so I'd better stop rambling.

About this little one, as awful as it might sound, I am not sure I love him/her yet. It might be different after Monday's scan (if he/she is alive, that is), but at the moment it still feels like a dream. I am of course, above all, grateful to be pregnant, and no matter how much I struggle with these feelings, it is a thousand times better than not being pregnant. But fear is so strong that I need an outlet.

Anyway, enough about me. Peanut, I so wish I could find something useful to say, anything, but I can't really. Your journey is a terribly painful one and you have had more thrown at you than anyone should ever endure. I can only hope that this thread still helps you and that knowing you can come in here and let it all out if you feel like it offers a bit of comfort.

Wombat, you were so kind to take time and support me, when you are going through your own verison of hell at the moment. Again, no experience of what you are experiencing, the only positive (if you can say positive in such a situation) is that you have this information and they will monitor you closely in your future pregnancy. Although of course this doesn't change the outcome, it might make you feel a bit more in control. It will be a horrible 4 week wait for you, but time will pass, one way or another. We are here.

And yes, also thinking of everyone else, Lisbeth, Monkey, Allways. And I hope Scrum being quiet is a good sign. Sending you all much love xxxx

About to have a very self indulgent miserable post here.... few things going on.... my due date is tomorrow, my baby would have been one year old (if born on his due date of course). My birthday is the next day, I am almost 45 and I feel now officially menopausal. I took a pregnancy test this morning as my period is 4 days late. I knew it would be negative but did it just in case. The single red line just confirmed it though that the absence of my period now means I am slipping away from fertility... first time I've missed a period... of course I knew this would eventually happen... just why today, its even Friday 13th... youngest about to start school on Thursday too. I know I'll come out of this OK but just now today I feel drained, directionless and sad. I stupidly feel I want my boy back, Downs or not I could have, should have had him, its totally selfish of course because I am only saying that because I can't have any more which makes me feel guilty for even thinking it but if I can't say that here then when can I say it? Sorry rambling, why do I feel so miserable and selfish, got so much to be thankful for... blame it on the hormones.... Thankfully I have nothing planned for my birthday except I have to visit my parents tomorrow. Don't feel like it, just feel like I want to be alone.

Sorry not up to chatting... nice to see you popping in Tree.

Better go and wipe my face and try and do something with the day.

Sorry for earlier outburst ahem ,period arrived this evening.... was glad to see it which is strange but not quite ready to let go of my cycles, not even wanting another baby really, just my lost one of course.... I guess I just want to be able to have the ability to have one if I did want it if you know what I mean. not making sense now!!!

Hi, I found out today as the result of an amnio, that the baby i'm carrying has trisomy 21.

We always knew that we would terminate the pregnancy if this were the case, but it doesn't stop the utter gut-wrenching heartbreak that accompanies this decision.

We live in Ireland, where abortion is illegal, so DH has spent most of the day trying to organise flights, booking a clinic etc. I am due to have the termination on Tues morning.

God, I feel at such an incredibly low ebb, exhausted and crying as I type this.

We'd told no-one in RL that I was pregnant, (tho I look huge now, am 16+4wks) and termination is such a huge taboo in this country. I had to tell my sisters this evening, as we have three Dcs, and had to organise childcarewhile we're away.

I feel very alone and extremely vulnerable right now, and also fearful of being judged for ending this pregnancy.

Would love any words of comfort, or just to know that others have been in this very sad place before me.

Thank-you.

I occasionally post on this thread because I was pregnant with a Turner's baby although I didn't have to make the heartbreaking decision to terminate because she didn't make it past the 12 week scan. I just wanted to post to show that someone had seen your post and to assure you that someone will be along soon with words of comfort. The ladies on this thread of truly wonderful. You have come to the right place.

Please don't be hard on yourself. I'm so for you and send (((((((hugs))))))) your way.

Olivia, I am glad you found your way here. I wrote a long post and then lost it, so I will write more later today as I have to go in a minute, but I just wanted to say that when I was in a very dark place, this thread and the lovely ladies in here have been my lifeline, they comforted me when I needed it most.

I can only imagine how much harder it is for you to be in a country in which terminations are illegal, we were at least well supported by the system. But you are not alone, there are many of us who were faced with this terrible choice and know the heartbreak, the despair, the anger. It is often said in here, but it?s so true and I will say it again, just be gentle with yourself, and get through the hours one by one. Somehow they will pass , and you will get through this. If you need us, we are here. It might help you to read back through this and the previous support threads ? just reading similar stories can offer a bit of comfort that someone knows what you are going through.

Thinking of you and sending you a big virtual hug xxxx

Hi all,

Olivia, not much time to respond to you properly (I'm in Oz and it's tea time here). Just wanting to say I have, and many others here, been in your position and know how truly devastating a time it is. I imagine it would be even harder being in a place where termination was illegal - would make you feel even more judged. Well there is certainly no judgement here, it's the most supportive, safe place you could find. Weekends here are usually quiet, so please don't feel disheartened if not many reply - they'll be along. I will be thinking of you in the lead-up til Tuesday. If you have any questions about anything at all, don't hesitate to ask. I'll check in again later. Take care xx

Eulalia, hello to you. You know there's no need to apologise, though glad you are feeling a bit better. Can I wish you a happy birthday for tomorrow? It's nice that it's on a Sunday and you'll be able to spend it with your family xx

Tree and Lins, lovely to hear from both of you. Sorry no time to respond as I would like, but miss you both. Tree, I totally understand when you were explaining about your absence. I've often wondered how you coped when you returned to work. I'm seriously thinking of ditching nursing for a few years and going into family day care - big change and huge drop in pay but it would only be for a few years. Lins, doesn't time fly. Ours are exactly the same age, to the day, aren't they? Shame we can't all get together xx

Coffee, glad you're feeling better. Cant makes so much sense doesn't she? I've pretty much accepted, that even years later, occassionally you can be brought to your knees by something - but that's okay, I think very natural actually. And not something to be feared, just part and parcel of losing a child. I really shouldn't start something when I have no time to really explain what I mean. Hoping time passes quickly this weekend xx

Peanut, good to hear from you, though sorry also that you are struggling - is it any wonder? Also, wondering about Allways, Lizbeth, Monkey and Scrum -hope you're all ok xx

And of course a warm welcome to you Wombat. I can't add anything to what the others have said. Glad you've found this thread xx

Must go, wish you all a peaceful weekend xxx

Dear Olivia,

I've been lurking and should post for myself, but your post has jarred me out of silence. We went through termination this week for our daughter who had Trisomy 9 . I have never known grief like it. But I was very struck by how respectful and supportive all the medical professionals we dealt with were. I lived for many years in Ireland and I kept thinking how much harder it would be in such a judgemental atmosphere. I hope that you can take comfort in the care that you are given while you are here, and that this thread con be a place where you know that people understand and won't judge you.

Thank you all for your very kind messages. It is a huge relief to know there is a place here where I can be honest about the horrendous process we're going through.

I do feel guilt because i know that this is a viable pregnancy, and we are deliberately choosing to end it for our own reasons.

I am terrified of people 'finding out', and being forced to deal with their disgust at our decision, and yet I also feel angry that we have this extra burden to bear, simply because we live in a country which prefers to export its 'problems' to the UK.

The sight of my DH on the phone to the clinic yesterday, credit card in hand, seemed such a sordid and sad end to a process which began with such hope.

It's a commercial transaction now, and as grateful as I am that we have the wherewithal to pay for screening and the termination, it seems like a spectacularly coldblooded end to the journey.

Again, thank you all so much for your generosity and humanity. It's a massive lifeline to me, to know that this place exists.

Hi everyone

just a hit and run to say it's so lovely that you have been thinking of me. Unfortunately all is not well. Me and ds have been away for a couple if weeks to give dh space and now back but fear the worst. Oh and the ivf didn't work but that seems a mute point. Am now nostalgic for pain after termination vs this and am still in state of disbelief. Hoping for better times soon and love to old and new but sorry not up to words of wisdom given how monumentally I have cocked things up x

Oh Olivia - please try not to beat yourself up over this. It is a hugely difficult and distressing decision to have to make, but even though the pregnancy is (probably) viable, around 90% of women whose babies get diagnosed with Downs syndrome decide to terminate - me included last summer. In some ways it might have been a harder decision with Downs, and some part of me wished it was something 'worse' and definitely non-viable. If you ask for support with a baby with Downs on mumsnet, you'll get several stories of hope and how Downs children/adults can sometimes get on well in society. However, Downs syndrome is a spectrum - mild Downs might not be so bad, but a severe case can have all sorts of problems, including heart problems (sometimes fatal), autism and very low IQ (40ish). That's a lot to take on - and too big a risk for me and my family. People with Downs are also at higher risk of leukaemia and Alzheimer's disease - often getting Alzheimer's in their 40s. And to top it off, there's a higher risk of you miscarrying the baby or having a still birth.

Sorry - I'm all doom and gloom this morning! I was just hoping to let you see that you're taking a hugely difficult, but very understandable decision. Its true that we never know what will happen to our babies/children as they're born and grow up, but I personally (and many others on here) was certain that it was kinder to baby and to my husband and I and any future children, not to start off this way. I terminated over a year ago now, and although it has been very difficult, I do not regret my decision at all. I'm now pregnant for the third time (miscarried the 2nd) and this one had a very low risk of Downs. Finding that out just made me even more sure that we'd made the right decision last year. I do hope you can feel at some peace with your decision.

Please keep talking to us, especially if you're not getting the support you need from other people in 'real life'. So many of us have been exactly where you are now, although without the added trauma of having to go privately overseas. Sadly, one thing you might miss out on is the care and sensitivity you would get in an NHS hospital going through this. Private clinics unfortunately tend to operate a bit more anonymously, and aren't able to offer the specialised support. We are, and we're with you every step of the way. Thinking of you. xx

Littlepoot thank you very much for those wise words. I do feel we are making the right decision for our family.

I suppose i just want to be as honest as I can with myself right now, for fear that in time to come I might look back and think "God, Why did we do that?".

I think it's just all very raw and new at this moment. I am still pregnant, which psychologically is very difficult, and just wish the termination was over and done with.

The anonymous aspect of the clinic is also hard to deal with. I had to have telephone 'counselling' on Friday, three hours after we got the results. It essentially consisted of answering a long list of medical questions, asked in that type of singsong voice i associate with airline stewardesses, eg "In the unlikely event of blah, blah, blah".

I got very obviously upset on the phone, and in the end the woman said "Oh now, don't get so upset, you'll have me going in a minute!". I know it's just a woman doing her job, I'm not blaming her for the casual tone, it's just hard to listen to.

Anyway, it's early days. Thanks so much again for taking the trouble to listen and respond so eloquently.

Olivia, I've been thinking of you - it is indeed so very unfair that you don't have support from the health system back home. I am not sure you already know about it from reading other posts in here, but it might be worth giving ARC (Antenatal Results and Choices)a call? They are a UK charity which supports women who find out that their baby has an abnormality. They are very experienced and very supportive. I am sure that if you give them a call tomorrow they will help as much as they can, and it might be a good idea to speak with someone more empathetic than the lady at your clinic before travelling to the UK on Tuesday.

Sarah, I was sorry to read that you've been through a termination as well (horrible word). I hope you are well supported in RL, you are also welcome in here if you feel the need to talk.

Scrum, what can I say, I am so so sorry. We're all thinking of you, please take care of yourself. Don't hesitate to post about it even if it has nothing to do with the title of the thread (if you feel it is helpful, that is).

Much love, xxxx

Hello Oliviacrumble and WitlessSarah; welcome. I am so sorry to hear about your babies' conditions. I am pleased you have found us though- this space is a real godsend. Sarah, I had to google Trisomy 9. Are you feeling dazed and exhausted? That was how I felt after my two terminations (one at 13 weeks, one at 20, both for fatal conditions). Olivia, I can't imagine how hard it must be to face this somewhere where the hospital can't lead you gently through the process. I second Coffee's suggestion of ARC. We will hold your hands...

Scrum, so sorry to hear your news and I really hope your DH starts to feel differently. The ripple effects of losing babies are more like tsunamis sometimes, aren't they? Please come back when you can.

Hi Mishta, Coffee, Peanut, everyone. Lins, I saw your DH had made over 3000 pounds in the marathon for ARC. That is brilliant.

hi lovely ladies

slightly weird update, the IVF place called today and they very apologetically called to say they "forgot" to call me to tell me one of the embryos made it to blastocyst on day 6 so its in the freezer!....hope springs eternal although possibly a mute point...willkeep you updated when am more sane xx

Hi

can i join you ladies? Have been lurking on this thread, but now feel ready to join in.

I had a termination almost 3 weeks ago following a diagnosis of T21.I have got 2 ds and before this had 3 previous miscarriages.

I am slowly slowly emerging from the nightmare of the last month, i thought that the miscarriages were a tough experience but this is on a completely different level.

Very glad i found this board, don't know anyone in RL this has happened to and you sound a very supportive bunch, just what i need right now.

One question for those who terminated due to T21 - did you tell many people in RL? I havent told many, I worry about being judged. Found out at the 12 week scan and we hadnt told anyone I was pregnant.

Hi Eavers and welcome, but sorry you had to join us. I'm sure some of the ladies who terminated for T21 will come along shortly.

Scrum, OMG, there is so much you have to compute, one thing after another! I'm sure it caused such mixed emotions. Let us know how you and your dh are, wishing you lots of strength to deal with it all!

Olivia, I'll be thinking of you tomorrow, I hope you'll be well looked after. Awful times, but you will get through them, day by day. Big hugs.

And Mishta, I understand what you meant about breaking down every now and then.

Hello to everyone else, I hope you are all as ok as you can be, thinking of you all xxxx

Olivia, witlessarah and Eavers, just wanted to say hello and I'm thinking of you. I hope, Olivia, everything goes as well as it can tomorrow. Someone else recommended ARC and I wanted to say I spoke to them for the first time last week and they were very good. I received a lovely personal letter afterwards with some information from the lady I spoke to. If you are still feeling in need of someone to talk to I would recommend them (in addition to this board of course).

Scrum - I'm sorry to hear life is such a rollercoaster at the moment. I really hope things settle down and work themselves out. sometimes time is all it takes.