Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

PS Mishtabel - the gender thing. I have a DD and have lost two DDs. I would love another girl (or a boy!). When I had DD, though, an annoying colleague who had recently had a baby boy, one of those baby boys who breastfeed 24/7, whereas DD was a mega-efficient three then four hourly breastfeeder, she said 'I am so glad I had a boy because boys are so much more attached to their mummies, look at your DD, she isnt bothered at all'. What a stupid comment.

I wonder if mum of twins-to-be said that because subconsciously she would love a girl and was over justifying....

Quick message to you Cantdo.
I agree that the portrayal as that doctor as an 'abortionist' was sensationalist and unhelpful and jurassic. I too am suffering from many whys and whatifs and more sense of what the babies may have been like. I cannot stop myself - partly it is due to the Jodie Picoult book that i have finally succumbed too. I should not have done. I am utterly drawn to it but am reliving some of the trauma.
It does not easily go away.
More soon but I think it is normal and horrid in equal measure.
hugs all
Bee xx

Much love Justa, have been thinking of you.

Glorious day here, so sunny and bright. But CHILLY. BBBRRR.

Mishtabel (sexymama), hope you and little Bella are ok, and that you're gearing up for your move. Did the girls enjoy seeing her?

Shangrila: Thinking of you lots too.

MrsBG - Where are youuuuuuuuuuu? I'm worried :{

To everyone else xxx

Homestart? I"m assuming you've not been waiting months to get your car started?!

They look fantastic Justa, I wasn't even aware such a charity existed. Good luck with them, I hope you don't get a maniac!

BK xx

Hi all.

Welcome back Justa. We've had a couple of homestart volunteers, very nice ladies.

How is everyone?

Am trying to warm up as stove is playing up, still got snow. Friday school bus not running so kids got day off and we left early in a blizzard. 10 miles down the road was no snow. Was icy though and the hot tub was surrounded with frost. There was a beautiful big moon which shone down on us and we lit candles and lay there with steam curling in the cold air sipping our glasses of wine. Sat and Sun kids happy to play in the cottage & garden, watch the squirrels, couple of DVDs and another session in the tub. We never even bothered to go out anywhere else. It's become a home from home

ds1 got a cough though (bad parent for letting my kids out in the cold) and he's off school again today. Need to catch up on you all. No baby for Shangrila yet? Can't be long now though.

xxxxx

Hi everyone

Just wanted to let you know we are back at our local hospital. I got a bit freaked out before we left, and worried about lots of things (she hadn't done a wee for 6 hours, was very tired, her breathing seemed 'funny').
Docs checked her over for a final time and reassured me that she was fine. I realised I was being paranoid, but still worried all the way back here. Was too choked up to say a proper thank you - I knew I would be so had already written down what I wanted to say on the bulk box of cream biscuits we gave them as a thank you (forgot card).
Now lying in bed with Bella in crib next to me - with monitor Will probably go home tomorrow. I just needed this night as a kind of stepping stone.

Just quickly as am suddenly so tired:
Welcome back Justa. You have been missed xx

Bezz, the girls loved seeing their little sister. Hopefully the novelty wears off a teeny bit cause I'm sick of them fighting over her already.

Can't, how scary re: skidding on black ice. When I think of places that snow, I just think of the beauty and romance. Things like the dangers of walking/driving on ice just don't occur to me. Glad you're all okay

Am drifting on and off so better go before I lose whole post. Have a good day all xxxx

Just read about your car crash Cant, how very scary for you! Have you still got snow?

Mishtabel and how typically kind of you to write a thank you note for the staff.

Just found out my niece is pregnant, due in August, she must have just had her scan and of course its a reminder of last year, when I just had mine and everything seemed OK... it was the only part of my pregnancy that I let myself believe I was having a baby and felt happy for those few weeks till I had the amnio. I am happy for her of course but am weary of the reminders.... hoping will feel better when the termination anniversary comes round next month, maybe be able to put it all behind me (in as much as anyone can).

Hello all of you
Oh Mishta so very glad that you are one step nearer to home - and I guess you are bound to be somewhat high on the Neurotic Scale - you have had a challenging, scary time. When you look back at this, I think you will be astonised at how strong you have been. I am. And Eulalia - wow! What a weekend - gosh that sounds idyllic it really does. And the pangs you are feeling in the wake of hearing the news from your niece? I feel them all the time - I think we all do. And I think it is maybe more poignant for you and I, as we are pretty sure our baby making days are over. The losses have exaggerated the poignancy of the end of fertility. I think if we had not found ourselves in this agonising, surreal spot, that maybe the moving into middle age may be less acute - but it has all been thrown up into harsh contrast.
In truth at the moment I feel it brutally. I am aware of the choice I made in such a more alert, informed, mature way now. I cannot stop myself imagining what the child would be like, cannot stop myself newly feeling that have done such a very brutal, final, non maternal thing. And that is so hard. There is no peace I do not think - there is a quote in the Picoult novel- hang on am off to get it......
'There are legions of us, I realised. The mothers who have broken babies, and spend the rest of our lives wondering if we should have spared them. And the mothers who have let their broken babies go, who look at our children and see instead the faces of the ones they never met.
They gave me a choice.. and even now, I wish they hadn't.'
Now I do have some issues with the stance of the book - ie it is safe to talk about potential termination in regards to a woman who has chosen to keep a disabled baby, and that society would not accept this book if the tale was of a woman who had terminated- but this character's speech is so relevant.

The lack of peace, the shadow of the decision always behind you, the other life we are not living.

I watched Mo Mowlam drama last night and watched the character that Julie Walters played interacting with a young man with learning difficulties and I recognise that I would, that I do show that level of compassion and warmth and naturalness and support when I work with children with learning difficulties. But I chose to not keep my own baby. As I write it even I am astonished at myself.
It is maybe even harder than it has been before. And yet I am not saying I made the wrong choice - I am just saying I made one. And it was hard. And it will always be hard. I think I was brave and thoughtful and strong. But there is no resolution that is easy.
God sorry ladies - that has been brewing. As Cantdo has expressed recently too.
Justa - how delightful to have you back darling. And so glad you are seeking and getting support from Surestart. How is DS 2 and his words? And how is your mum coping this week?
Bezzy - honey - you are still my number one!
Your voice sounds present and strong today.
Sorry if I have missed saying hello individually - I was running through your voices in bed last night- I have such a clear sense of you all
Am off to email our dear Shangrilala.
hugs all
Bee xxxx

Also hello to Treetops - I was going to send you a text then thought you may need some privacy and quiet this weekend. I hope it has been a healing one in some way.
We are all here to listen to all sorts of moans and groans.
Bee xxxxxxx

Oh gosh Bee .

But in a different way, is the language of that novel not similar to the language of the Observer article? It makes it seem so simple, and that people have done the WRONG thing when really there was no simple choice, there was agony and thought and... too much to put into any words.

Yes, perhaps if choice over the outcome of a pregnancy was not offered, life might be easier for those no longer making the choice in one sense. The babies who couldn't live would be born and die. The babies who could live would be born and live - with whatever measure of health issues/difficulty or not - and lives would adjust accordingly. But the anguish felt in making that initial 'choice' would not be gone, it would be part of it all. The anguish of seeing a child born to then die... but not knowing when, or whether it is with suffering, or waiting for that outcome with your family. Or to see two pregnancies to term with both ending in still birth, as happened to one lady I knew. Or the worry to see a child born who requires more support than you will be able to offer in your lifetime, and to worry about their future or that of their siblings, to worry that you will not have enough resources to support them, allow them to live life to the full. And I have worked with people who have learning difficulties too: some people have good support, and live happy lives; others have difficult, hard lives, as seen by the sometimes terrible events on the news. And yes, I know people will always point out that only certain things are 'screened for' so any pregnancy may result in someone living with this type of situation anyway.

But - we ARE offered the 'choice', the decision. And for those who do have to choose, it is not made with hard clinical reason - it is made with love and anguish and sorrow. And as with any choice, there is the potential to wonder after the fact if it was the right one, which you don't get with a fait accomplis. But you make the best choice you can.

All this is a bit much for my wooly head. But don't be hard on yourself, Bee. You are a lovely woman, it comes across from the way you write, the way you support and care about others on here, the way you care about and nurture your family.

I really hope things go well for you this week... are you back at Harley St on Thursday? You must have so much on your mind: try to be kind to yourself. xxx

Just quickly to add:

Cant - how are you feeling now after your crash? I can't imagine how scary it must have been, esp given your pg. Hope all is OK.

Mishta - so glad you're nearly home! AND that you've got a monitor . Hoping all continues to go well with Bella. I'm sorry about the woman in hosp making generalisations about girls, but you obviously know they are lovely and that's the main thing.

Tree - hope your weekend was good and that you're feeling a bit better in yourself. You can't be wonderful ALL the time .

Justa - baby steps for you, in more ways than one. How sad that it's your Mum's birthday so soon after your Dad passing, no wonder her gift to herself/you made you cry.

Eulalia - your weekend sounds lovely; the moon really was beautiful, wasn't it (was lovely here in Glasgow). Sorry there are fresh reminders about absence for you, too.

Hi to anyone else I've missed (Peanuthead - how are you?). Off to get myself a fresh hot toddy now, xx

Oh gosh Numpty - what a beautiful post. You capture so much truth in there. How very wise you are. Hope you feel better soon from your rubbish cold. x

Thank you Numpty for your thoughtful words - I do know it is not black and white, gosh I do. I guess am just expressing the anguish that can recur and that there is very little peace. Such a responsibility. I think if i had hope of another pregnancy it may feel less bad; but two, possibly three DS pregnancies - I just do not know. The appointment is Thursday yes. I am sick with dread really.

I hope you are well; snuggled up in a coldy way with a hot toddy - sounds perfect!

Thank you again for writing so gently and considerately love.
Bee xxxx

I hardly feel up to the sensitivity of the discussion here - Bee, Numpty, your posts are so sensitively written.

The quote from Picoult makes sense to me actually. It is essentially saying, I think, that there is no right or wrong decision. Whichever decision we make in these circumstances, we will be haunted by the decision we did not take. I think what matters is that we accept that we didnt do right/wrong, we made a decision out of love, and terror, and we have to live with the haunting.

For me, though, there is no question but that I am grateful that medical science gave me the choice I had. Without that knowledge, I would have had 1 stillborn baby and 1 baby who would have died within minutes/hours of birth. And been blissfully unaware for 9 months that there might be a problem. Other people might decide differently or feel differently - but I am grateful that I had that choice.

Been to the hospital again today - routine thing - but met someone who was earlier in a problem-free pregnancy, talking about the anomaly scan - and she was saying how anxious she was in case she found out the baby was a boy as she was desperate for a girl. I really had to stop myself from saying that this was an anomaly scan not a gender scan and that there were other things to be desperate about.

Different world, honestly. I was shaking before my anomaly scan this time.

Justa - how often is your Homestart person coming? how is DS3, tell us about him; you've been so discreet, but it would be lovely to hear more.

Bee, thinking of you as Thursday gets closer. Hugs.

Hi Cantdo - I agree re the words from Picoult being meaningful. I found them meaningful too. I do not think she does make it black and white in fact; my only issue with the book is what I said earlier about termination. I am finding it harrowing and am compelled to read it. She writes a good formula - always the same one; huge family trauma, legal case, family in pieces. Some of us do survive Jodie! It sums up so perfectly how we are left with the shadow. I hope you are okay; gosh can see that yes it is hard when women who have not known this twilight zone are in a funk about being given the wrong gender diagnosis.

I guess that could be us in another life; in a parallel universe.
I am so glad you are 29 weeks - so glad it is all going smoothly. You deserve it darling.
x

Hi Bee, I was compelled too. Yes she does write to a formula and some of her books work better than others - I found this one very powerful and couldn't put it down.

Interesting too to see the effect of Willow on her sister and her father as well as her mother.

I really am thinking of you as Thursday approaches. You must be sick with dread. Will LM go with you?

Aaaah - now I see how I read that quote wrongly . I was reading 'broken' as a verb, not an adjective. Puts a VERY different spin on it! It's a much more gentle quote if it's an adjective...

(not sure if I quite got the right use of verb vs adjective there, but hopefully you can see what I mean...)