Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

Bee and Bezz, just wanted you to know I am thinking of you beautiful ladies today (tonight). And Bee, I echo Katie in that I'm not suprised you are sick of being brave. All my love to you both xxx

Have read back, and would love to reply properly, but should probably sleep. Thinking of all of you who are struggling at the moment. It's been said many times before, but worth repeating; try to accept all of your feelings, be they sad, happy, guilt, whatever, as normal and let them out one way or another.. As Moneli said, it's often one step forward and two steps back. Never linear. Eventually it will be two steps forward and one back. You will each get there in your own time xxx

Thank you lovely ladies
A friend took me out for lunch - distracted me from the sorrow. She does not know what today means and it feels too private to share.
I will be okay; I have felt this before and as you say rightly say Mishtabel, each wave of intensity has its' purpose. It all leads to acceptance and understanding of the trauma. Does not make it easier to know this, but is always worth reminding oneself that it is tiny steps to take not great strides.
I have therapy at 5.
Do not feel like talking much but inevitably shall do and purge my spirit of some of the heaviness.
I am sad for you Coffee - I just do feel how raw and sensitive you are. Your sensitivity is probably what makes you such a kind soul but it also means that you must feel every pain. The wound is not healed and therefore many things trigger the relapses. Your situation and your Sylvia, that is unique. There will be other mothers who have had similar diagnoses; the doctors knew what was real and what her life would be like. You chose to take the pain away for her. I feel so much you have acted out of love. Try and hold onto it; I know it is hard.
I studied Engish and French too oddly.
Feels a long time ago now.
xxxxx
Bee

Bee i am glad that you had someone to distract you for a while. I sometimes thibnk those that know very little about my situation are those that i can be somewhat normal around, if that makes sense? Being brave is exhausting!!
Bezz i hope you had someone there for you today as well.
Thank you for your kind words of support ladies.
Katiecubs, i have kept things this time around very private, mainly for tlike you said, the fear of people letting me down again. I feel if i keep things all to myself then theres no-one there to hurt me anymore than i am hurting already or let me down.

Gina you are so brave for visiting your niece. As i put in my earlier post i had 3 babies born around the time of my loss or EDD of my first loss. I kept my distance and i'm not sure it made anything easier, in fact it has possible made things harder, because its become so big now i dont know how to tackle it. Its the what should have beens that eat away at me.

How are you coffee? The mind works over drive doesn't it? As many other people have tiold you and me for that matter, we can only act on what we are advised and told. I am 100% sure you did the right thing to prevent your babies pain. Any mother wants to prevent pain to their child and thats what you did. As to you 'getting over it'. I really struggled with this first time around. Although it wasnt a termination it was still a loss. I desperately wanted 'normal' to return. Until i read somewhere that you create a new 'normal'. I still find it frustrating and desperately sad that my 2 losses have had such an effect on all aspects of my life. I have changed so much, it sometimes scares me.

Somebody posted earlier about not trusting friends as much,It is so true. I really struggled with this, that part of it all really hurt me. So many friendships will never be the same.I feel i have lost so much, 2 desperatley loved and wanted sons, friends, confidence, self esteem and i dont like what i see anymore. I feel fat and ugly and have a huge unfillable hole inside.

Yet another long post, it just seems to pour out when i'm on here. I am not even sure if it makes sense half the time, its just rambling words.

Extra hugs for those that need them today. Thinking of you all
xx

Bee, Bezzy, been thinking of you.

Bee - you must be fed up of being brave, and having the right words to say, and keeping your family going. Your experience a year ago was appalling. (Why did they want you to insert the pessaries yourself? I had it done for me, twice. Couldn't have managed myself, I am sure.) And what you have been through in the last 18 months is shocking. Yet here you are, writing, reaching out, caring for your family. You're so brave but it's crap that you keep having to be. I hope you are doing okay this evening and finding comfort in LM even if he isn't able to say much and is doing the emotional distancing thing... come back and talk to us if you need to later... many hugs; you know you are our Queen Bee.

Gina, well done with cuddling your niece. I have to say I would have struggled massively with that at your stage - you did really well. You are right though re the consultant appointment - I am sure he/she will tell you it was one of those things, and it should be okay next time. I know it's hard to believe. The odds of the two terminal problems I had were unthinkably low but they still happened to me. I don't trust statistics anymore. But I do know that what happened to me is very rare and that most people go on to have no problems. And despite what has happened to me, I have a healthy DD already and have been scanned every 4 weeks in this pregnancy and it seems okay - not that this stops me from panicking - anyway just to say you WILL get there...

Coffee, you know what? I was actually RELIEVED when they told me the prognosis for my second lost baby meant there was no chance of life entirely. Obviously I was also absolutely floored, traumatized, heartbroken. But the zero chance of life made it easier for me. I have since felt guilty for that relief that there wasnt a major problem that had an uncertain outcome. But you made the right decision - you havent wavered in that until now, and that is based on someone else's different situation. You really can't compare. You acted to spare your little girl.
Oh and see what I said to Gina above about TTC again. I was terrified - but in a way, your need to try outweighs the fear and so you find yourself trying anyway.

Popsy I too have changed irrevocably. I feel I am a much more self-protective person now, with less generosity and less openness. Like a prickly hedgehog curled in on myself.

I had bump envy for the longest time. I found it so hard to see pregnant bellies; they looked so smug, somehow,and I always assumed they had it all easy. I still think some do, but many don't. Funnily I found bumps harder than newborns. Newborns clearly weren't my baby, whereas bumps felt like an insult to my missing one. I don't know.

Oh this message is long. Too long. I meant to just say hello, but it felt like such a sad, contemplative day that I can't stop myself from joining in.

I know this is a sad thread day, but thank you all for being here and for helping each other.

Special hugs to Queen Bee.

Just wanted to wish everyone a peaceful Easter, may April and the following months be gentler with all of us! Cantdo, this is the month when you will meet your little one I hope we will all find some peace, and will make a few more steps forward, while remembering our losses with a bit more light in our hearts.

Not really up to posting these days, words are failing me, I'm afraid I'm having a relapse, but just wanted to say I'm thinking of you all and am grateful to have found you. xx

Coffee, bank holidays/any holidays are hard, I think. Everyone seems happy and the loss seems even more.

Post if you can, even if you can't find words. We're here for each other.

Thank you Cantdo... yes,holidays are hard. Nothing new to say really, nothing that hasn't been said before. I honestly thought I was making progress, I was feeling so much better, and I thought that the peace I had found was more than just "a few better days", that I had found a different perspective which would pull me through. But I was so wrong, the rawness came back with a vengeance. I am just living again the awful days leading up to the termination, and also the day itself. It seems like it's only now that I realise what happened, then it was as if I had a thick fog inside my head. Not enough time passed, probably, and as has been said here before every such wave has a meaning, the me on the other side is not the one I am now, but it's just hard to see there is light at the end of this. So I'm just waiting for the time to pass, it probably doesn't help that I have no other children, no one whose enthusiasm and innocence can rub off on me.

Yesterday evening I had a very powerful urge to look at Silvia's photos, but because I was not well, dh (who has seen them already) didn't let me - in a gentle way, of course. And I don't know now what to do. I am sure that if I see the photos I will have a massive meltdown. On the other hand, I feel I should see her, I started to forget what she looked like. I feel my responsibility is to not forget her, I am like Cantdo so aptly said here before a custodian of her memory, but on the other hand I am so scared of seeing the photos. Maybe my dh is right and I am just too fragile to cope with this at the moment, I really don't know.

Sorry for not writing to each of you, but I am thinking of you all these days. Much love xxxx

Hi Coffee. The photos... I couldn't look at the photos of Stella (the second baby I lost, at 20 weeks - don't have photos of the first, who was born/died at 13 weeks) until after my 20 week anomaly scan in this pregnancy. Then I felt I HAD to look at them and I looked every morning for ages (have stopped now). The sight on ultrasound of this baby at 20 weeks made me want to remember Stella anew. But before then the photos were simply too painful for me although part of me wanted to look. I do understand your conflict. What I do think though is the photos will keep - and you don't need the photos to remember Silvia.

I think it is harder, much harder, for you because you don't have another child to distract and lighten your spirit. My daughter saved me, I think, literally, because I couldn't let myself sink - and she was there, making me laugh - and also letting me mother her, which is what hurt most about losing my babies that I couldn't keep mothering.

You'll get there Coffee. I have to say - I think for me, I didn't have counselling; I didn't really process everything properly; I've used this pregnancy as a kind of salve, giving me hope and healing me. Not a healthy way of dealing with what happened, but it's what I've done.

The run-up to seeing the consultant is horrible - it means you don't have any sort of answers yet. After I'd seen the consultant after my first loss, things felt more clean, somehow. (The second was different - condition diagnosed in utero and confirmed by 2 specialists; I had all the explanations I needed, and info on future pregnancies, before the baby was induced).

Your DH sounds fantastic, by the way. I am glad he is helping you through. Big hugs for this weekend.

Thank you Cantdo, you are amazing to find so much time for me/us on this thread. I hope you are feeling well and spending Easter with your family will distract you a bit from the anxious wait. xxxx

Dear Coffee - I think it is understandable that you are feeling so fragile and unsure/upset just now. I saw the thread you posted on, and the person who replied having known of a case where all was OK. However as you know yourself, every case is different - and what is posted in a few words on Mumsnet cannot capture exactly the ins and outs of the doctor's opinions regarding that little life and what lies ahead. I think doctors are generally cautious and don't guide people to make a decision, which then makes it harder because it IS then our own decision, when we perhaps don't feel the best informed to make that decision. But on the other hand, what might have been ahead for Silvia had you continued the pregnancy? You made the decision you did because of that, because you did not want her to suffer. You made the hardest decision you could make, because of loving her - and that to me means you have been a parent, and a good one. And the photos will still be there, whenever you want to look back to them; sometimes I think when we are fragile we almost want to have a total meltdown because we are almost in that place already; so long as we have the arms there to comfort us, sometimes it is not a bad thing. For me though, the photos aren't the best memory of my iola, what I remember is her image in the scan, when she was still here - and I don't have a good scan photo. But the point is not the photos or lack of them, it is having something by which you remember her, whether that, or jewellery, or something planted in her memory. I think, I wonder, if that memory becomes a little like the ring in a tree that grows; we absorb it into our being, it is less raw and at the surface but because it is a deeper part of us. And in a way, it becomes part of the strength of us.

I hope everyone else is having a peaceful weekend - it is a hard weekend, holiday weekend and also being Easter, reminders of dying and living. Thinking of you, Bee and Bezzy, with your sad anniversaries; and also of everyone here who remembers their losses so acutely. xx

Dear Coffee
This empty, slow weekends do so much exacerbate the hollowness. I think it will take a long time sweetie to process all the levels of sadness, disbelief and anger and guilt. I really do think it can be overwhelming.
I have been in therapy for many years now, mostly I started because of my hysband moving out. But I had all sorts of residual angst to deal with alongside that. And even, this week, nearly eight years after starting therapy, one year after my second termination, I was in pieces on Friday at therapy. Sobbing and angry and indignant and hurting.
It takes a long time.
And Cantdo is right; we are lucky her and I to have children to distract us from the agony, small people to hold and love and be loved by. I know that Lins, my sort of co- thread founder, lost her first girl when she did not have a child and found it utterly swamping. It is totally understandable that you are suffering so very much.
It is normal and okay and to be expected and very sad too. One day, your hubbie and you will be parents; Sylvia will be in your heart and you will be able to demonstrate the maternal state that you so miss. You will get there one day; but now, you are still adapting to life without her and that is so tought for you.
I wish you well; try and distract yourself a bit. Wine, chocolate, crap telly it matters not what it is. And crying and melting down are fine too, necessary in fact. It will pass; the intensity will shift and be replaced my gentle sadness; much more manageable.

Sending you love
Bee

Happy Easter ladies. I hope you all managed to find something 'nice' to do, even if it was eating chocolate and drinking wine!

Why are holidays always so much harder???

I went out over the weekend and there are pregnant women and small babies everywhere!!Every magazine i pick up has at least one baby related story in it. My closest friend had her nephew for the weekend, who was born on the same day as my sons funneral last year. So listening to the baby stories pulled at the emotions and then i dropped an easter bunny round to my 'was' best friend for her baby, my son would have been 2 months older than her. I sat with her on my lap and wished my son was here as well. And now with all these new emotions to deal with! Its just a roller coaster of ups and downs. It has opened up old wounds and created new ones and i feel like we are further back than when we started. I have an appointment with my fertility cons on tues and my GP on wednesday, but i am not expecting much.

Just wondering i have had a bad headache constantly since i came out of hospital, did anyone else have this??
I went to the cemetary today and ask my Dh if our 2 boys were together as i get so upset thinking of them being alone. He said that they were playing together and safe and happy, looking after each other. Then i remembered someones words, that all our babies were together and it bought me comfort. So thank you whoever said that.

Coffee how are you today? I hope you are feeling brighter. I dont have any words of wisdom for you. It is a horrible place to be and loneliest time in my whole life. Your Dh sounds wonderful. Mine was and still is my lifesaver. The first few months were awful and then the gaps inbetween that unbearable pain started to widen. Even when i was pg this time around i still had bad days and days of sadness. You will get through this, i promise you. I will hold your hand whenever you need me.
I have photos of my son Christopher whom i lost at 19weeks and his scan picture is still in my photos on my phone. I rarely look at the picture when he was born, it doesnt bring me any comfort atm, maybe one day. Only my DH and i have seen it. Its just for our eyes. We didnt have a photo this time around, i couldnt even hold him. I was too afraid. I asked the nurse what he looked like, but i couldnt look. I have created my own pictures in my head of both of my boys. I think in someways i am trying to block this latest loss out. I cant bear the pain again. It is just too hard.

Oh my, what a long post again.Sending easter hugs your way ladies and echo coffees wish for a good April for us all.

Hi all,
DH has been hogging my phone thru the day (searching for used caravans), and my laptop is finally in for repairs, so I have been unable to post.

Just quickly (ha) wanted to say Coffee, that I have been here, listening. You're words echo so much of my feelings when I lost my first daughter. It's hard to be a mum without your child. At the time, I used to think it was better that I didn't have children cause then I could virtually melt down anytime I liked . Having now had children, I realise what a welcome distraction they may have been. I don't think they would have necessarily made it easier - I don't think there is any 'easier' in all this, but a distraction all the same. And also there is then somewhere to focus all that mothering feeling on, whilst at the moment it might seem that there is no where for it to go.
Having a relapse, as you call it, is so normal at this stage of your grief. It is often at this time that the reality and finality of the loss really sinks in. And at the same time, support from RL is often starting to wane, with people thinking you are, or should be, getting over it. I was warned about it, so when it did happen, at least I knew it wasn't just me losing my mind. Personally, I found looking at photos and the funeral video helped at the time, in the way of bringing all of my grief to the surface and enabled me to have a real good soul-cleansing cry. It was hard at the time, but I always felt better after. We're all different however, so just keep doing what is right for you.
I am so glad though that you have realised you can laugh without it meaning that for one fraction of a second you are forgetting about Silvia. I too, realised this early on, and never felt guilty about it. I knew I loved and missed my daughter as much as humanly possible, and that's all that mattered. Its so obvious you had that same love for Silvia. Even as I laughed, I missed her. Never more than a thought away, and a thought away - never. That is how I did, and do, describe how I think of Sheridan. She is always with me, just as Silvia will always be with you. Your firstborn. Although my most recent loss is my little boy in 2008, I learned most of my lessons in grief with my first loss, and I am so grateful for that. Sheridan would be turning 17 on the 22nd of this month. The day itself doesn't bring actual sadness, more like a kind of gentle wistfulness, a wondering of what she would have been like and how our family would be were she still here. Sometimes when Bella is smiling madly at nothing, I like to think maybe she's still around at times (cause seriously, who really knows?). Anyway, I digress, as usual. Just really wanting to reassure that you are doing well, and to let you know that, like the others, I'm here xxx

Love to everyone else too (must go back to sleep now ) xxxx

Oh Mishtabel, what a lovely perfectly heartfelt post. You always manage to articulate your feelings so beautifully.

I can add no more, Coffee but am here too. Reading and willing you on. My best to you and all the others here. Sunnier days are surely around the corner, both physically and emotionally. They can't come soon enough.

Forgot to say Coffee that i created a memory box that i tend to look at more than photos. I have cards, teddies, birth and bessing certicate from the hospital, scan photos etc etc. Have you got one?

Also Mishtabel, i completely agree, i learnt most of my lessons first time around and that RL frineds and families support is less and less now, which can make times even harder. I wish i had support like this last year at least i have found it now

xx

And popsy too - sorry didn't mean not to acknowledge your post. I think holidays are so much harder as there is an expectation of mood - how everyone else feels, how we are 'supposed' to feel. And when we cannot conform with this, it further magnifies our loss.

Easter is for many a profoundly spiritual time. Yet there is that flip side of silliness too - daft hats, bizarre cartoon characters and a surfeit of chocolate. It can be a time for fun and lightness and hope and when life is bleak or unfathomable or just downright sad, this exuberance that seemingly everyone else feels can be so, so hard to take.

Hugs to you and good luck on Wednesday.

Thank you Shangrila, its going to be a rough few weeks as we have our babies funneral a week on wednesday. I had one son buried and now i have to do it all over again.

Hello dear ladies, and bonjour Bee
I have just logged on after spending Easter with some friends (very unexpectedly, as we had no plans for the day in fact) and read all your posts.

Numptymum, it helped me so much to read your words, that the memory of our babies becomes like a ring in a tree, somehow this image brings me comfort. And I think you are right about the scan images versus the ?real? photos, although I haven?t yet seen the real ones. The image of my baby at the scan is so so painful at the moment though, that my mind only brings it back in very short sequences, and I have to let it go before I break down. I think I will just wait for a little bit longer before looking at the photos of Silvia, it will always be painful but maybe I?ll cope with it much better if this urge didn?t hit me when I am in the middle of a relapse.

Bee, as usual your words are beautiful. I know you are so raw at the moment as well, and your horrible anniversary has just passed, so thank you for holding my hand.

Thank you as well, popsy, and you, like Gina last week-end, have been so brave, I?m sure I?d break down if I cuddled babies now. I do imagine all our children are together. Another thought which brings me comfort is what one friend told me a few weeks ago. Last year, he and his wife lost a baby boy at 13 weeks, he had T18. And my friend told me they found peace by thinking their baby was not meant for this world. I?m not sure why this thought is comforting for me, maybe because I am normally a bit of a control freak and thinking like this brings home the fact that we didn?t have any control over our babies? fate, or not any genuine control, anyway. I am still hit by waves of guilt, and a general feeling of disbelief that it would all have been as bad as the doctors thought, and this still feels like a horrible dream sometimes, but I hope time will bring lasting peace.

The run up to the funeral is a nightmare. Unfortunately you have been through this before, so sadly you know what to expect. I really feel for you, I was a wreck before Silvia?s cremation. It helped me so much to post here though... We still have to buy a plot at the cemetery and bury the ashes, we want to bury her in the children?s section, it somehow feels right to put her to rest with other children.

Mishta, you are so right about having less and less support from RL. As I said, we went to see some friends today and nothing was mentioned about our loss. I can?t blame them though, we aren?t very close and I?m sure they thought we?d be very upset if they asked anything. We are very lucky to have some very good friends though, a couple who took a week off work and came to stay with us shortly after the termination, and who brought us a bracelet with Silvia?s name on it, for us to bury with her or just keep. Generally though, I think we?re expected to carry on, and everyone says we are young and have time to complete our family...

Shangrila, thank you so much to you too for your kind words. And big hugs to everyone xxxx

To Mishta and Popsy - just wanted to say thank you for sharing in such a humane and natural way, words of grief and loss. Sharing it here, acknowledging how real it is, being private and yet connected to us all, well, I think it helps.
Mishtabel that is such a touching and somehow inspiring thought, that Sheridan is in someway shining through at you through Bella's eyes - it seems very believable and comforting and true.
It must be a different time for you now; having a newborn so long after losing Sheridan. You must be so much wiser and further developed in your understanding of loss. And you must be so grateful for wee Bella - what a gift to you she is.
And to Coffee; so glad you are here and that we can help you on your journey- it is why we are here.
Goodnight to you all
Bee xxxxxxx
ps Shangrila hello. You too are an inspiration to us all

Hi Popsy, just wanted to say that I hope your appointment tomorrow goes well. Are you ok today?
I've been keeping busy all day and it helps, and my small garden looks a bit better. Much love to everyone xxxx

Thanks Coffee, im a little anxious about it but not expecting too much. I never thought i would be attending this appointment, it was made in December and then found out i was pg in January and never got round to cancelling it!!
Ive also kept busy today, been shopping with my dh and my mum and our for a drink with my dear friend. Not as productive as your day gardening
Hope you are all well.

Hugs to all
xx

Sorry not read the posts but wanted to pop on very quickly to say am thinking of bezzy and Bee as they have anniversaries coming up. Holidays been difficult with sick kids, they are much better but as ds1 is getting better it seems to have accentuated his difficulties (he has Aspergers) and he's been very hard going. Sister stayed at the weekend which helped a lot. Must go as on my own now. Take care ladies. xxx

Hi, I've not been to the board for weeks, but I've thought about you all and your babies often. I've been scared to come back to the board...I almost didn't feel worthy of being here and kept away as to punish myself.

We had the procedure to stop Rose's heart on the 4th March and she was born sleeping on the 7th. Her birth was wonderful, such a beautiful experiance, filled with lots of love. She weighed 2lb 13oz and measured 39cm. We spent many wonderful hours cuddling and kissing her. The preist who blessed Rose suggested we name her twin sister, who was born with the placenta after Rose. We've named her Lilly and they were blessed with us, in hopsital with my parents and aunts. It didn't hit me that we couldn't take Rose home until we had to leave without her later that day. Thats when my world fell apart and every day since has gotten harder. We held the girls cremation on Friday 19th. the weeks before the service we kept busy making arrangements and going to see the girls in the chapel. Now I have nothing. I'm waiting for the funeral director to return their ashes, we are keeping them at home with us.....it took us a while to realise that we needed them home, that it was ok to keep them at home with us. My husband is back at work now and I'm not doing too well on my own. I'm tryign to arrange counselling, their is a 10 week wait list at the hospital and counselling through my GP is longer. I feel so let down my be midwife, I feel so let down by everyone to be honest.

Oh Allways - I've been thinking of you lots and it is good to hear from you, though obviously there is so much sadness. I'm glad that you were able to have family time in the hospital with your Rose and Lilly; leaving them there is so hard. Your whole story is so, so hard, I am so sad for you - and angry that life can do this sometimes. I think it really does help to talk about it with someone, esp with your DH now back at work. I think I did most of my talking on here, though I did also get great support from a lady at my church. Would either of these give you support while you wait for counselling? It might help process some of the raw feelings you no doubt have - and you only need to do it as you feel able to.

I hope it won't be long until you have the girl's ashes. Sending you a big, warm hug; do be gentle on yourself, look after yourself. xx

Allways, welcome back here, we have been thinking a lot about you and your baby girls. I?m so sad for you, and I don?t really know what to say, nothing of what I say in fact can make it easier. You do not need to punish yourself though, you have been through so much and it?s not you who made this awful thing happen. Just post here when you can, don?t hesitate.

So sorry your midwife let you down. Is this your community midwife? Is there a bereavement midwife at your hospital? It?s so rubbish that they let you down, I found (and read in here that it?s common) communication in the NHS to be really bad. And these are times when they should reach out to you, as the last thing you can/want to do is pick up the phone. Until you can access proper counselling, maybe it would help to offload here? This thread can be so therapeutic. My thoughts are with you and your beautiful baby girls, they are and will always be so loved. Also, everybody suggests ARC, I haven?t tried them as I found posting in here to be really helpful, but maybe you could give them a call?
Sending you big hugs xx

Eulalia, sorry to hear about your ds, will you be on your own all week or can you get some support?

Cantdo, I hope you are well, you haven?t posted in the last few days. No pressure to post though, you must be so tired.