Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

Moneli and NumptyMum, thank you so much for your kind words. It helps so much...
Allways, you sound like such a brave lady...
I've just had a good cry and although I can't say I feel better, at least I've let it all out, even if for a short while.
I feel like this thread will become my lifeline until I'm able to pull myself through this.

Hi Coffee and Allways

I am so sorry you have had to join us. I have had 2 terminations, at 13 weeks for a chromosomal abnormality and at 20 weeks for a developmental one, both that meant my babies wouldnt survive.

Allways, it's horrible that you are having to endure the double loss of your twin girls. And Rose at such a late stage. I think the afternoon tea is a lovely idea - FWIW, I found the funerals of the two babies I have lost much less traumatic than I had imagined. That is, I cried throughout both, but I did emerge with a sense of release each time. And both times I needed to do something nice afterwards. The first time I managed it, the second, I was much more zombified. Good luck with the next few days just bonding with your perfect angel. And keep talking here; a few of us have been through termination at 20 weeks or above - not sure about as late as you, but the practical details will probably be reasonably similar and we can offer support.

Coffee, I am a very private person too; I struggle with outpourings of emotion. But I too have been unable to keep the feelings in - and I have found immense comfort here, rather than in RL where nobody really gets it. Thank goodness, in a way, that they don't have to live through this too. I struggled a lot between the birth of my second little girl - at 20 weeks; she was stillborn - and the funeral. I kept thinking of her little body all alone and me not being there to cuddle her; I too missed her physically. And cruelly my milk came in and that was another physical blow and reminder of loss.

It does get easier. But it doesnt go away, and you have good days and bad days. I am pregnant now - 32 weeks - and I still look at the photos of my second baby (my first was at an earlier stage and I have no photos) almost every day (having been unable to look at them from the day I received them to the day I had my 20 week scan in this pregnancy).

Hi everyone else. Shangrila, I am so glad you feel healed. I have to say your experience has given me so much hope - for the newbies, Shangrila had suffered quite a few losses and now she has a gorgeous DS.

LittlePoot, the orchid thing is probably me being mad. BUT my colleague lost a baby at 19 weeks and she had given me an orchid around the time of her conception. I was given an orchid around the time my first lost baby was conceived and another the second time. This time have avoided orchids like the plague....

Hugs to everyone else.

Dear Coffee,
so sorry you are going through this....It's heartbreakingly awful. No-one should have to endure the loss of a longed-for child, and to experience birth with such sadness.
Know exactly what you mean about being afraid of feeling better, and breaking the connection. Please take it from me that when you're ready to feel better it will just happen and it will eventually feel ok.
All I can suggest from experience is to commemorate your Silvia in every way you can...I too dreaded the funeral, but it helped, the full outpouring of sorrow that I experienced on that day was my first step towards moving onto a life where he only existed in memory. It was important to me with our first loss that his name was written down somewhere, anywhere...we wrote him a letter for his funeral, put his details in a book of remembrance at the hospital, I wear a christening bangle with his name and birthdate engraved on it. I'm waiting this week for another bangle with another name and birthdate, but I'm still breathing, still getting by one day at a time, and trying to look forward a little at a time.

take care of yourself, you sound like I did in my first few posts...the words of reassurance, and sheer companionship I have experienced on this board have helped me through these dark dark weeks and I hope they help you and your husband feel less alone too.

x

Babylily, the christening bangle is a lovely idea. I wish I had thought of that.

I am glad you are stablising yourself a little. I totally agree that the funeral does help.

It's all baby steps, isnt it? We just get through as best we can.

And I agree - here has been a lifeline to me. Thank you to Bee again for creating this space.

I am so moved by all your kind words.There is so much sorrow, so much grief on this thread, yet somehow kindness prevails, and someone holding your hand through these dark times can mean the difference between a bit of hope and despair.

Cantdothis, I'm sure my milk would have come in as well, but I luckily remembered to ask my midwife about it just before we left hospital and she gave me a couple of pills. There has now been one week since we lost Silvia, and my breasts are back to their non-pregnant size. It hurts like hell to see them like that so quickly, yet I'm sure it's nothing compared with your milk coming in after the birth and adding to the trauma.You put it in words so well, I ache to hug my baby once again, and in the evenings all I can do is wonder where she is, and the thought that I'm not able to protect her is too much.

Babylily, thank you for your post. You too know exactly how I feel, the need to say my baby's name as often as possible, to write it down so it makes her presence real. The bangle sounds like a great idea, heartbreaking as it might be.

Justabout, I'm very sorry for your father. It's hard to explain why I find funerals so "frightening", I've always felt like this, even when I was a child. You must have realised from my posts that I am not a native English speaker, in fact I've only lived here with my husband for the last 3 years or so. The reason I'm mentioning this is because we are both Orthodox, know nothing about what a funeral is like in England, and have no idea what to expect.

We are still trying to decide if we should have little Silvia buried or cremated (still can't believe it's my baby I'm talking about). My husband would prefer a burial, I am not decided yet. We were told there would hardly be any ashes left if we opt for a cremation, yet I hate the idea of burying my baby.

One thing I am sure though, even if it's not a customs of ours, we will write something to be read at the funeral/cremation, and I want to chose a casket as well. We are not very religious people, so to be honest it's not important to us to have an Orthodox funeral, but we want something meaningful.

Justabout, your post inspired me to call the chaplain at our local hospital and discuss the practicalities with her, then start making some arrangements.

Thank you all again for holding my hand through this xxx

No time to post properly, but just wanted to welcome Allways and Coffee to our cottage. Your stories are heartbreaking, and I only hope that you find some healing here. Thinking of you both and Babylily and Moneli -all in such acute stages of loss and grief xx

Shangrila, so lovely to hear from you, and I also love that you describe yourself as 'healed'. Just beautiful xx

Tree and Justa, lovely to hear from you too. We have missed you both xx

Hello to everyone else. I am reading and you are all in my thoughts even if I'm not posting. All good here xxx

Coffeeandchocolate - welcome to us and sorry for your loss at such a late stage. Please feel free to vent, shout and sob here, it is the right place. I wish I could say more but am really pushed for time, but I wanted to welcome you as well.

Allways, welcome to you as well and so sorry on the loss of baby Rose and her twin too, its tragic. Your plans for her funeral sound beautiful.

So much sadness here but as you will both see from others there is hope and happiness ahead.

Not been able to read all the posts as have visitors for a week - relatives of dh's, a family of 4 and it is hard work!

I have the anniversary of my termination coming up. Strangely I didn't even know the date but I just looked it up (remembered it was the first Thursday in March) and it was the 5th. Kind of OK as been preparing myself mentally but also a bit panicky thinking that I really have to let go and part of me doesn't want to! But I know its not something you ever get over and I'd be able to come on here in 5, 10 years time or whatever and someone would understand.

So just to say for the moment thanks to you all for being here.

Hope to catch up soon, visitors due to arrive back soon and don't want them to see me crying.

love to all (particularly our new ladies) xxxx

Mishtabel and Eulalia, nice to "meet" you, though I wish it hadn't been on this thread! Eulalia, it must be so hard getting close to this horrible anniversary... I'm sure that although you feel like you have to let go, you will find a way of doing it without breaking the connection between you and your baby. I understand so well when you say that part of you doesn't want to let go, I'm at that stage at the moment, raw grief I can't abandon for fear I'll lose the bond.

It's so ironic that my midwife, whom I haven't met yet because she was off sick for ages, called me today to ask why I didn't keep my regular appointment today at the GP practice... I couldn't believe she wasn't told, she said it was because she was off sick, but surely someone could have left her a message at the GP practice...

Justabout, thanks for the advice about the funeral. I'll have to clear my head a little bit, after all this is the least I can do for my baby girl. I haven't got round to calling the chaplain yet, as we need to decide what we want first, and take it from there.

Much love to all of you xxx

Hello to my dear ladies
And a very very gentle hand hold to Allways and Coffee - gosh I am constantly astonished at what must be endured by women here. I hear the agony and disbelief and sorrow in your voices and I know from experience that it all feels so very wrong.
The days ahead will be dark and painful; you know that. I remember after my two terminations for T21 I felt so raw, so unable to stand the light or the real or myself. I was so thin-skinned, so delicate and so breakable. I could not speak in real life to an single soul - the only comfort was to sob in the arms of my man and to write here - sometimes every hour. I needed somehow to make sense of all this - I needed to know that someone knew.
We do know; we will help, you can rant, you can speak at length to us about your babies, about your pain.
It never leaves you; but there will be brightness again, you will smile. You will value life and you will be strong. I have never met such strong and insightful women as the ones I have met here. None of us would choose to be here - none of us would.
But we are; no one knows why but we are. And there is a bond and an intimacy that will get you through the darkest times.
Babylily - I have listened so attentively to your agony; you voice reminds me so much of my own at the beginning of this journey. I posted to you on ARC too (we have a name in common - but it does not need to be shared here. I hope the tiny steps you are taking are manageable.
I am proud of all of the women here who have suffered and who open up their hearts and experience to share and support the newly bereft. It is a precious and safe community.
Hold on tight
Much much love
Bee xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Eulalia too - I wanted to say that I can imagine it is a hard moment in time for you now too. It is a letting go isn't it?
I feel as if I am close to a letting go of hope. I feel a new necessity to let go of the suffering but that too brings pain and somehow distance from the baby that was not.
I hope you can allow yourself some space to grieve.
Treetops - was it today you returned darling to the world of work?
If so, a very big well done to you - not easy- but hopefully not as bad as expected.
Beexxx

Coffee...really disappointed on your behalf that you haven't had support from your midwife through this. I've heard nothing from mine this time, but last time the lady I had was outstanding, she arranged for me to have alternative thearapies, cried with me, and just supported me until I was ready to be 'signed off'. The hospital usually inform GP's & Midwives, but this obviously fails to happen, and in such upsetting circumstances for you.
The decision on funerals is an awful one, We opted for cremation over burial first time around, only because we knew we would someday move away from the area and didn;t want to leave our baby behind, with cremation it felt more like he had been returned to the elements.
I have a friend who is Orthodox and he has been sending me lots of info on Orthodox miracles and icons. He said to me that what had happended to me may have been God's way of protecting us from future unhappiness...(I'm not sure how much I believe but I'm happy to put my faith in other peoples belief at the moment).

Eulalia. I hope the anniversary passes peacefully. I remember being terrified of the approach of my first, and then finding that the anticipation was far worse than the actual day. It became a day we made special for our little boy, we lit his funeral candle, bought him flowers and wrote his name in the sand on the beach. It was sad but we made it significant, a birthdate rather than a loss. (don;t know if that makes any sense)

Bee. Thankyou for letting me know who you are over there in arc. Your words are so eloquent and so helpful. What you say about letting go of suffering and the distance this creates from the baby...I wish I had the answer to that. My orthodox friend talks a lot about hope, but in a way I see that as being a luxury reserved for people who have never been destroyed by unhappiness and circumstances so beyond our control.

I can't believe that I have been able to gather myself together in the past few weeks, I'm functioning, I'm packing up our house, I'm able to tell people what happened without breaking down. It really sickens me though, that I am coping, that I'm not in pieces every day. Worried that the day will soon come when I stop crying every day. It all seems too soon, feel like I've probably tried too hard to act normal and it's just stuck.
Rang hospital today as full CVS result should be in and I need confirmation of baby's gender. Left a message on consultant's secretary's answerphone this morning. No response. Don't want to have to keep calling. It just feels like so much hard work having to chase appointments and people down. (never mind the huge wait for geneticist appointment down here, meaning we won;t see anyone before we move away...anyone know of a good geneticist in Scotland?)
I'm rambling i think...

Hi Bee, this is indeed a wonderful community. I hesitated before posting, but now I am so happy I have. I said before that I am usually a very private person and don't like talking about myself, yet this time it is so different, the pain is too much to deal with. And only the ones who have had this horrible experience know what I mean, and know how long it takes for things to get better.

I am having a horrible evening - the evenings are the worst for me. It's one week today since I gave birth to my baby girl, and I feel like I won't get through all this, even if I know that I will, that I have to - and I somehow hate myself for knowing this. I have had a moment of sheer panic, realising that this termination meant killing my baby. I am very frightened of death, yet I inflicted this on my child. How can I be here without my baby? It's all so wrong.

Sorry, I don't think what I'm saying makes much sense, but I just feel waves of despair hitting me tonight.

Sad, sad thread tonight. I can feel the pain and the fear about letting go.

Lily, I don't know any geneticists. I do know though that we have no choice other than to carry on. There isnt an option to just give up. I sometimes wonder how I have carried on the way I have after 2 horrible terminations. The day after the second termination I was in Toysrus with my toddler, and it hit me that I was standing in Toysrus playing with toys and if anyone there knew what I had done the day before they would have thought I was some kind of monster to be laughing with my child the next day. I'm not a monster. I think we have to just carry on and if we lose the raw pain, we don't lose the connection entirely.

Coffee, I'm sorry you're having a horrible evening. It has been 16 months since my first termination, and nearly 9 months since my second, and I still panic and feel terrible when I remember I also killed my babies. It isn't logical, because that isnt what we did - in some ways we saved them - in any case we shortened their suffering - but that feeling never, I think, will entirely go away.
Do you have photographs? I am finding them a real help, having initially been unable to look at them after the first time. Now I use them as a means of remembering. But I only have photos of my second baby, and I wish I had them of my first, too.

At our funerals, my DH carried the casket, which each time was heartbreakingly small and light. He also did a reading - the chaplain emailed a selection that we could choose from. I couldnt have read. I cried through both funerals. It just felt utterly unreal to me. I put one of my daughter's infant toys into the casket, and a card telling the baby we loved her and wished it could have been different.

Sad, sad times. I hope Allways is doing as well as can be expected - thinking of you, too.

Bee, Eulalia, hello. You are at a different stage of grief - but you show it doesnt go away. Bee, how are you doing? Eulalia, as Lily said, the run-up to the anniversary is worse than the day itself - the day itself I found less horrible than expected. Actually for me I found the anniversary of the scans that showed the problems worse than the anniversary of the terminations. Because when I terminated, I got to see and hold my babies, and so there is something not entirely lost about those moments. Whereas the scans were just pure hell.

I am thinking of you all. I wish none of us had had to be here. But I will never stop being amazed by the courage and warmth and generosity of the women here.

Dearest Coffee
You said on a previous post I think that your man was your rock and I am so glad for you that you have this and that you recognise this. I know I felt the same way and although he too was grieving, I think it helped him to help me. Otherwise he felt so very helpless. If it helps to fall apart dearest then do so. He will hold you up.

It goes against every maternal instinct to have been through the nightmare you have been through - and that is why you are so tortured and devastated. You have been strong and taken an unbearable decision. You did it Coffee, for your baby girl Sylvia - not for yourself. You did it out of love. And that is so very hard to bear when you want her in your arms. You have released her, and the suffering is yours now. So very hard to bear. Let your soul adust to this, cry and sob if needs be, rant and be angry too. Or be quiet and small. Whatever you need to do, it is all part of the process of acceptance. Little by little it will become more real and less nightmarish. You are a lovely young woman and there is time for you and your loved one to have a baby still. Sylvia was your girl and always will be.
Let the minutes pass by; you are allowed to seek comfort, truly you are. You do not need to be punished; have a bath, glass of wine, eat chocolate, watch an old movie, allow yourself some space to accept.
You will navigate the stormy waters of loss; it is very tough but day by day you will move on.
Sending you the strongest compassionate vibes and gentle hugs
Bee xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

gosh, I'm overwhelmed by the strength and support from you all on this board.

I helps to know you have all walked the same path and it is "doable", despite it being so utterly awful.

Coffee, I'm so sorry you are here...sorry we are all here. You gave your daughter Sylvia peace, you made the most awful decision, but you did it out of utter, devotion and love for your little girl. I wish you peace too.

Each day brings new tears to me, new heartache. I have a wonderful family and husband and know; somehow we'll make it though. I?m having some problems with work, re my time of after Rose is born, them asking to me find my own maternity cover and silly remarks re it being for the best!!!! Thankfully my eldest brother is an employment law specialist and his fighting my corner.

Good morning to you Coffee
Just checking in to see how you are this morning.
Last night, my partner was away for work, my big girl, seventeen would you believe, and I watched a dvd in her bed and ate M and S 'shove it in the oven' food.
Proceeded to have a desperate need for chocolate - alas none to be found. So, pulled on my zip up work boots over my woolly tights (no trousers on, no skirt), grabbed fake fur coat and drove to all night shop. Think my daughter thinks I have lost the plot.
Sometimes chocolate is the only answer.
And Coffee.
Big hugs to you
And very big gentle hug to you too Allways - very big one.
Bee xxx

Hello there Allways
You are getting through the days my dear; well done to you and well done for reaching out here and posting. I do think it is sane-making; to share the horror and suffering here with women who know.
Am utterly astonished at the insensitivity of your employer - you should not be asked to organise anything at all. You should not be expected to answer the phone, nor check emails, nor deal with anything work related. For goodness sake; who are these people?
Is there one kind, gentle soul at work who could take over this role and relieve you of this extra burden?
You sound as if you are well comforted by those who love you; your voice sounds calm. You will get through this; but lord I wish you did not have to.
Do know that we are here too.
Bee xxxxxxxxxx

Bee, sometimes chocolate is the only answer.

We are a very small place to work. 5 staff in total and there isn't anyone I'd trust enough to tell them abut Rose. My Boss knows and that hurts me enough.

Yes it must be just agony. Maybe your DH can just tell him to sort it himself for goodness sake.
You must be allowed to be as small and private as you wish. Nothing else matters. Your time with Rose matters, that is all.
I send you such love and strength.
Bee x

Hello, and unfortunately I belong to this thread as well. I have previously been on the June thread. I apologise now as I am struggling to find the right words to talk about this and so some of what I write may not make sense and be all over the place.

I am 31 and was pregnant with my first DC. We very sadly found out at the 20 week scan that our little girl had spina bifida and on advice we felt we should terminate the pregnancy.

I was induced on 10th Feb and our beautiful daughter Olivia was born at 8.44 pm

I have very few memories of the birth and although I am finding that I can function through the day night time is hell. I am finding that all I can do is look forward to the future whilst holding on to the memory of our beautiful girl. I say good night to her every night and make sure that she knows that her mummy and daddy love her more than anything.

My DP and I have never been closer and we are both now talking about TTC although the wounds are so raw we both feel that we need to try again as soon as possible. I don't know why but it makes sense to us.

My heart goes out to everyone here.... xx

Oh dearest Justa; it does make sense. I do know what you mean. At first, we are all of us consumed by the hope of a new life to balance out the pain. And some of us have had that and for some of us that heals some of the agony. But in the end, the loss of a much loved baby, particularly Rose in this case, can not be replaced. There is no point hoping that it will ever be taken away, this pain.
But somehow, it will fit into your life, be part of who you are. The baby will brush past us and touch us and shape us. It is so very sad.
Hope is not the right emotion even. Does one hope it is over? No, one wants to hold on to the love. Does one hope we will forget? No. Does one hope that another baby will replace the pain? Again, no.
We hope to get through it without losing ourselves. We wish it had been different. Eventually we absorb the loss into ourselves and life offers joy in other forms.
God knows that you must know all of this.
I too am rambling for my own reasons.
biggest of hugs Justa - I so love hearing your voice
bee xxxx

Oh Gina. Oh I am so very sorry to hear this sad news. It is just not sense making at all is it? How can there be so much sorrow and loss out of love?
I am so relieved for you that you have found a tight spot between your husband and yourself. It is shocking to the mind and body.
I think we have all of us had the compulsion to want to try again for another child. I think it helps to focus on the future whilst not letting go of the love we felt for the baby.
I have tears in my eyes for you and for your beautiful girl Olivia. How to hold onto her and let go at the same time is immensely distressing. Well done for posting here. We can and will listen to any words you have to share with us.
gentle hug and teary smile for you
Beex