Talk : Antenatal support thread for women who have chosen to terminate V

[treedelivery]

Welcome to the 5th thread.

An amazing day to begin a new journey together. The thread babies are arriving and we take this as a positive nod from the great karma controller - whoever and whatever that may be.

Good luck to our thread, to the souls who read, those who post, those who drop in to learn and hold hands.

Our cyber bench is a supportive place, we sit outside hospitals as strong but scared women go to ride their wave. We huddle in our cottage when the weather is bleak, stormy or biting cold.

When the sun shines on us we share stories of real life, gain strength and giggle together in times of warm weather.

hi,
just checking in really. Spent a few days thinking, being quiet, feeling so comforted and supported by the eloquent and heartfelt messages I've had here and on ARC, made some potentially life=changing decisions, and woke up this morning feeling absolutely no longer pregnant...
Spending 12 hours a day packing up our house has been a bit distracting. wanted to post earlier, but have felt a bit unable to express anything worthwhile, and my attempts to say how much I appreciate your words just didn;t seem worthy.
Mother-in-law asked how i was today, I said, 'not so good today,' (having just been in tears at packing up the baby toys I never see us using again) to which she responds 'Why? What's the matter?'
I had to bite my tongue to stop myself from screaming that it was a week ago we lost our baby. A week ago and she can't see what's wrong?'
before she left she actually told me 'its a week ago now, time to get back to normal.'
I told her I didn;t actually want to get back to normal...It may have been a week ago, but I'm still not pregnant with my baby, I still cry every day and I still feel like I'm in a nightmare.
It's made me worry a little...how soon do people expect you to recover from something like this? Just because I've been through this before doesn''t mean I'm an expert in getting over it.
Hope everyone else is ok, and feeling cherished. x

Lily - I think people expect a very speedy recovery. The people who knew about our losses (and there werent many of them) did. My MIL made similar comments to yours.

I think you have to accept that they don't get it, they have no idea how it feels- and just keep telling them how you feel if you can face it - or if not, try to hide away and protect yourself a bit.

Oh and in my experience the second time is worse than the first, because there is such a horrible familiarity to the nightmare.

But you are getting there, and it does get easier, slowly. Big hugs.

Oh Babylily, it's so hard when people don't seem to acknowledge your pain, because in a way it's as though they're not acknowledging the meaning of your baby. I was told, on the day of my first daughters funeral, by one if DH's grandparents 'Ok, that's over with now. Don't talk about her anymore. And if you're smart, you'll get rid of her pictures'. 17 years on and I remember it word for word. But I guess that is how it was in their day. Still hurt though. A few weeks later, I was having a very down day, and when mil asked how I was feeling, I told her that I felt like crap and that life felt meaningless to me. Her reaction was to, literally, cover her ears with her hands and walk out of the room saying 'i can't listen to this'. Seems some people only want to hear you say that you're feeling better. As Cant said, I think you just have to accept that some people just don't get it, and either attempt to explain your feelings to them, or just tell them what they want to hear and seek out those that do understand. We understand, you can always come to us.
Having said that though, don't feel pressured to post. Seems you have alot going on in RL at the moment. Drop in whenever it suits you - we'll still be here

Moneli, I'm sorry for your sons teething pain, but glad it helped ease some of your guilt. We mothers are so quick to blame ourselves at times when things go wrong. All the very best with TTC

Bezzy and Eulalia, I have no idea what you two are alluding to re: big cars. No actually, I tell a lie, that's a pretty universal concept. DH has a big 4WD - does that count?

Bee, lovely to see you. Hope you were able to take it easy over the weekend

I have ordered 2 new monitors for Bella as the other one has been playing up again. I have even turned it off while I've been half asleep and had to spend the last night before DH left for his month away, in the spare room cause I knew he had a big drive ahead of him today and needed to sleep. One monitor is an under-the-mattress type that Helenlouisey recommended, and the other one clips onto the nappy. I am also going to take the hospital-issue one back to see of they can adjust the sensitivity. That should cover it! Neurotic? Me? Never...

Hope you all had a lovely, restful weekend xxxx

Hi Babylily - we haven't "met" on this thread yet, I lurk alot but as someone else said i often don't feel like I have the right words (or time) -am terribly inarticulate in RL, anyway our stories are similar. But had a similar one with my MIL this weekend (what is it with MIls?) who said I should move on, which indeed I have a great deal but you never do totally and my due date is in 2 weeks....

Anyway my response, which I thought you might find useful for any future comments, was that my GP told me it would take 2 years to get over the initial grief - she can't argue with that - words from a professional etc.

In terms of how long it takes, god knows, I felt I turned the first corner around 6 weeks, as in I stopped crying daily and felt a little bit human. But we're in a different place to others as we won't get pg naturally again.

Going back to in laws, mine are staying on my due date - they didn't ask - as they are en route to the airport. I told them they looked blank. I dont' want to see anyone on that day - let alone them, now what do i do, hide in my room - which means they'll think I'm being a drama queen, try to socialise? Why shoudl I? Sigh.....

Hi to everyone, am intermittently lurking, waiting to do pg tst later in the week from egg donattion and in a state of high anxiety.

Moneli - I understand you finding the genetecist's 'excitement' at having your case to work on distasteful. From a different point of view though, it may be in your favour as she will also be very thorough and be fully up to date with any new research. I remember a few years ago I had Bell's Palsy (a very freaky experience!) and the doctor I saw was a locum and she actually asked if I minded her using me as a case history. As a result of this I do really feel she gave me a lot more monitoring and care than if I had gone to any old jaded, "been there, seen it..... next?" kind of doctor.

Babylily, I'm stunned by your MIL's comments. Poor you! A week? Blimey, it's been just under 2 weeks since my ERPC and it's really only starting to hit me now. I think when your hormones start to shift back to non pregnant mode it can really be a harsh reminder of what's really happened. In my case I think I will be ok in a short space of time but with the two terminations, as my counsellor said last time, what you're going through is a bereavement and you need time to mourn. And Mishtabel, what a cold way for family members to deal with your pain. I can't understand people sometimes.

Peanuthead, I am also feeling your pain at the moment. What is it with certain family members, they always seem to crop up just when you least need them in your face? Whatever other people's feelings or reactions are to your emotions the should ultimately respect you and your space, especially as it is your house. You have every right to be selfish and your other half should put his foot down. It's not fair! My problem is that my step sister moved over to London from the States at Christmas. She is very needy and emotional and really the last thing I need just at the moment. I told her I needed space after getting the bad news at my scan. She texted me every day, sometimes several times. When I finally called her after a week it's like a valve was released and now she calls me almost every day. A lot of the time to offload her frustration and emotions on me (she is struggling to get work and doesn't have money to get her own place, so is having to live with her dad and grandmother who she is not getting on well with). I understand it's difficult for her but I don't really have the wherewithal to support her just at the moment and am feeling a little overwhelmed by her expectations of me... which then leaves me feeling guilty.... and then annoyed to be in a position where I have to feel guilty.

Got my own inlaws here so won't be able to post for ages - but wanted to say good luck to Peanuthead for the test later this week.

Thinking of everyone else, particularly the newly bereaved.

Babylily - I am not contributing much to this thread at the moment but am reading. I couldn't bear not to write to you though and express my shock at you MIL's words. A week ? and she didn't know what the matter was?!!! You poor honey. And actually poor her too as she must miss out by being so un-tuned to people's feelings.
I know that it will take more than a week, or two weeks, or two months to the hurt and the loss to begin to subside into something manageable to live with. I've been there - twice. The first time it took me 6 months to even hit rock bottom, and then I realised I needed more help, and got some counselling and went to an ARC parents day etc. Everybody copes in different ways, and 'recovers' at different speeds. Now, 6 years after losing our first baby, it still hits me out of the blue at unexpected times.
So be gentle with yourself, and I'm glad you are finding some comfort here. I am really sorry for your loss and am sending you 'virtual hugs' through cyberspace. xxxxx

Hi all - not been getting to the computer much and there's a lot to catch up on, so apologies for anyone/anything I miss out.

However wanted to say re our experiences, one thing I found was that when the raw grief was abating I felt guilty and sad that I was losing that rawness, as that was how I felt when I was most aware and closest to my baby, at the time of all those awful choices and decisions, at the last time of being together. Losing the rawness was another kind of loss. And I don't think people who've not been there will understand that you don't WANT to let go, 'get better'. I don't think it's the same as other grief - except perhaps sudden traumatic loss of someone you love who you weren't expecting to lose. So perhaps that is sometimes behind some of the unthinking comments, people want you to 'move on, get better' when in fact you can only do that at your own pace, otherwise you are letting go before you are ready. If that makes sense.

Hi, its been quiet round here. I've had very little time to myself with half term holiday.

Numpty that makes so much sense about wanting to stay with the grief, others have said just that too.

Peanut - good luck with the test! Please let us know how you get on.

I don't think anyone really gets over what we have been through, you just get more able to cope with it. I think because one isn't able to resolve the grief properly perhaps in other ways of loss like a funeral of a loved one. I mean we all die obviously but there is something terribly tragic about ending a life before it has even begun.

Anyway hugs babylily, just take your time.

I have in-laws coming at the weekend, not parents in law but dh's relatives and I really can't be bothered.

Wave to you all, best get back before I freeze (using computer in spare room with no heating)

xxx

Feel slightly reassured that it's not just my MIL who is deranged. It's horrible though, to hear how many of you have come across similar... (mishtabel, cant, peanuthead - it horrifies me how anyone can fail to register the significance, and the permanence of the loss we have suffered)
I'm angry now, angry at her insensitivity, angry at myself for wasting so much time dreaming of and planning for this baby when it was never going to be, angry at the extra progesterone that stopped me miscarrying when it would have saved me the trauma of 'choice', and for some reason very angry at my midwife...who has still failed to make contact. Do they just delete your name of the list in situations like ours? Last time I had a wonderful MW who came round and cried with me, and arranged for me to have alternative counselling. Funnily enough, one of the questions my current MW asked at booking in was if I had felt supported by the community team after our diagnosis and loss. I feel like complaining about her, I'd hate to think of anyone else being just abandoned..but maybe she thought she didn;t need to see me because I knew more about the experience than her?
I had to explain what had happened to me to a colleague today...and I can't believe it, but I explained everything, described how desolate I felt, everything without breaking down (I had tears, but I could still speak). On the way home from work I cried my eyes out...as numptymum said, the loss of the rawness made me feel so horribly guilty. It was 10 days ago, and I was able to talk? (although it may have been assisted by the tranquilizer and rescue remedy). I know that the full CVS result will be in next week, so expecting a return to the trauma once we find out what sex the baby was. I also then need to go back in to talk about everything with my consultant. Also keep putting off calling the counsellor, not feeling brave enough to go back to the hospital for that side of things.
linspins - i know exactly what you're saying aabout time...I have never ever managed to speak about our first loss,(in 2005) without tears, even seeing orange gerberas,the flower that we put on his coffin make me well up. God knows what this time will be like, now i have two sad sad memories to live with.
I have a horrible side effect today, bleeding stopped, at the weekend, but now
my breasts have started to leak. I can remember it happening after 4 days last time, and I had something to take to stop it, but for it to start after 10 days? I guess it may be from the progesterone I was taking but it seems so wrong to happen now. When will it stop?
Peanuthead...thinking of you and good luck...
xx

Oh Babylily. It's just so awful isn't it?

In my opinion, your midwife hasn't done her job properly. However, in her defence, has she heard? I know communication isn't great here in Bristol, maybe similar where you are? Since my termination I had a missed miscarriage, and the midwife called me up as soon as she found out, to say how sorry she was etc etc. Asked if I wanted to speak to a doctor and so on. She's lovely. So, surely your m/w should do something similar? My NHS service has let me down in other ways though (remains from miscarriage were sent away for testing and they 'lost' them)....I guess none of them are perfect.

Quite irritating that there aren't standards across the country.

How is everyone else? I was thinking about vivcliq? You ok sweet?

There's such a lot going on, on the thread, and sometimes it's hard to keep up. I don't like to post if I can't write to each person individually and address each of your concerns. I'm sorry. I do think about you all though.

Lovely to hear from you Lins. Mishtabel, you must be wonder woman to manage on your own with your 3 girls and still find time to think of us! Bee, hope you're having a lovely break. Good luck with the in laws Can't! Justa and your little army of boys? Tree in your isolated land away from cyberworld? MrsBG? Eulalia, Numpty, PH (keep us posted!), Moneli, Kittens, Shangrila??? And anyone I've accidentally forgotten from our little cottage.

Much love everyone

BK xx

Oh babylily, I am crying here for you, wish there was something I could do. I too heard nothing from my midwife after the termination. They were really supportive in ante-natal visits. I could have done with at least a phone call, or maybe contact from the health visitor. Vent your anger here as much as you need to and hugs again.

Hi bezzy!

I don't know why but I had nightmares last night about someone hurting my kids. Feeling fragile this morning. Oh well off to spend the day with them (last day of school hols) so hopefully that will bring me out if it). Sun is shining.

Better go wake them, still sleeping!

love to all. xx

Hi Bezzy and hi ladies xx

Just a brief one from me to say that like Linspins, I've been reading all of your messages but not been up to posting.

Partly, I think, because DH and I are knee-deep in trying again for a baby (Not literally, obv. That clearly wouldn't work... ) and as that is taking up a lot of my headspace (and energy!), I'm not sure this thread is the most appropriate on which to offload.

However, I've been checking in daily and wanted to send some extra love to babylily, as I know how hard it feels to be let down by the health professionals. Don't be afraid to raise this with them and to complain loudly. Only by challenging this kind of behaviour can we make sure it doesn't happen again.

Peanut - am keeping everything crossed for you.

Bezzy, thanks for thinking of me, and hope everyone else in our little cottage is well. I was talking to my best friend about you all yesterday, and telling her how amazing you all are. You're all never far from my thoughts.

Sending you all my love
Viv xxx

Glad you're ok Viv, understand what you mean when you say you need to distance yourself from the thread sometimes. I found that if you're posting regularly, it somehow stops you from moving on? Not sure if that's right.

Good luck with TTC! Hope to hear some news soon

BK x

4 Months since my ERPC for missed miscarriage and I get a letter out of the blue from the consultant saying what the cause of death was.

What a shock. I'd just made peace that I wasn't going to ever find out and have now discovered that baby died of Patau's (T13)

So that's one T21 and one T13 and one miscarriage that I don't know what happened. Not great odds for a 33 year old.

I guess on one hand it wasn't another T21, but why does this keep happening??? What will I get thrown at me next?

BK x

Gosh, sorry to hear that BK. Don't forget though, that most miscarriages happens due to chromosome problems or incorrect development, which are unforutunately both things we, on this thread, have had to deal with later on in pregnancy. It's just that nature deals with these earlier and thankfully takes the choice out of our hands. Hopefully this will help you feel that you are not alone, or singled out to be plagued by Chromosomal Trisomies. They don't usually test for the cause of a miscarriage unless you've had at least a couple so it's just as likely that a lot of people who have had miscarriages have been due to similar circumstances.

Thanks kittens, I've been googling and what you say is exactly what I've read. Most miscarriages are chromosomal, just v frightening to actually have a diagnosis.

Better dash minibez is drinking vinegar....

Hi Bezz, Just saw your post. I agree with Kittens, that these things are a more common cause of mc than we know or that there is research out there to know. What a horrible shock though to get that letter out of the blue like that. Hope you're ok.

Hi Everyone
Babylily - angry is good I think, we have after all good reason to be angry. ANd it is after all one of the stages of grief and a moving on of sorts. Although I got stuck in angry and bitter mode for months...

Viv - it does seem as though TTC takes over all other emotional stuff, you can;t really focus on it while focussing on the loss I think, tis why I drop in only sometimes as for us TTC has been quite full on. Good luck - hope to see you on the pregnancy thread soon.

Bez - was shocked to read that your results were lost and now that they've sent them. What a shock to get in the post out of the blue. Esp when you though they'd gone.

Well my news is I seem to be pregnant. Which is utterly fantstic and what I've been obsessed by all along. I found out a few days ago. However what I've just realised - and feel a fool for it - is that this baby is not going to replace the lost baby and never will. WHy on earth i thought everything would be ok once pg again I don't know....I really thought it would all just vanish if I could only get pregnant again. I can only really say all this on here - can't even say to DH and will go to the pg thread in future but also (whispers) the lost baby was MY baby and this one is the product of a very beautiful 22 yr old Cypriot. But isn't mine yet. I have suddenly realised what a complicated pregnancy this will be if it sticks. And how much I probably need some kind of counselling.

Due date will be the same week as the scan to see if there's a heartbeat too.

Hope everyone is bearing up in this horrible damp feb...

Wonderful news PH!

Congratulations xx

Thankyou bezzy - just reread my post - so negative, just too terrified to feel any joy/excitement really, but I am thrilled deep down. But also have just realised how much it's going to hurt too and I hadn't thought of that. Wish the next 2 months were over ...

Was just thinking about your letter again - your mc was around the same time as my diagnosis I think - it feels like a very long time ago (though isn't really) in terms of emotions and healing, and was thinking how awful I'd feel to get an official letter digging up teh details agin. Hugs.

Thanks so much for your kind words PH, especially when you have such a lot going on in your own life.

Yep it was a long time ago. I had the D&C on 7 October and was told to expect the results within 6 weeks

....mmm.....

I've been manically googling away, and my favourite article yet on 'reducing the risks of non disjunction' is to 'complete your family by the time you're 30'.

Damn, I missed that one.

Much luck over the next 3 months Peanut. We're here to hold your hand

BK x

Congratulations PH! I have to say, pregnancy does help with the loss in some ways, but it doesn't in others. I still look at the pictures of my lost baby quite often-it doesn't just go away. And I think counselling is a good idea for you - it IS your baby, you just need to get your head round the genetics. One thing - your beautiful Cypriot eggs are likely to lead to a very positive nuchal scan. Which is good. And we are here, hand holding, as Bezzy said.

Bezz, grrrr to the stupid hospital, and the whole thing. If you want to feel even more down about it all, come to my house. My MIL seems determined to blame me for the loss of my 2 babies... over the last 2 nights I have been accused of:

• starting too late (got pregnant with first baby, DD, aged 31, and second aged 32, third lost baby aged 33, but anything over 30 is asking for it according to her)
• not leaving enough gap between first and second failed pregnancy and thus body not being ready
• breastfeeding for too long and causing loss of first baby and more. It is driving me mad.

I think there are so many things we dont know about problem pregnancies. I wish I hadnt had to live through this and could remain in blissful unawareness. I guess we would all subscribe to that.

Bee, thinking of you. Viv, good luck with TTC!

ah Cantdo, I can't even start to say anything to any of those comments. I think I'd have thrown her out and even DH would have agreed with me. Why would you say those things - be stupid enough to think them, sure - but why say them?????

And yes, I know it will be my baby - just isn't quite yet. GIve me a few weeks or so..

Bezz, what a shock that must have been to get that information out of the blue like that. I agree with the others in that many mc's are caused by chromasomal abnormalities without people even knowing it. Who knows how many of my own mc's (at 24, 36 and 37) were caused by this, but because they happened before my T21 pregnancy, I never thought to get them tested. However I realise that now you know, it might take some time to get your head around. I look at it this way - you, like most here have had way more than your share of bad luck, and it's time for some good luck to come your way.
I relate to what you were saying about wanting to address people individually etc. I often read the thread during the night on my iPhone, thinking that I'll respond the next day. By then I either have to reread what I'd read during the night, or go off memory (dodgy at best of times). I hate thinking I've forgotten to acknowledge someones concerns or news, but know I must do it occassionally. You do well remembering everyone.

Peanuthead, wow! Congratulations. I understand it might take you some time to feel it's actually your baby, and I suppose some of this is self-preservation and some is due to the nature of your situation. But, yeah, you'll get there, and in the meantime, as far as the baby is concerned, there is no doubt that you ARE it's mother, already nurturing the little bean. So happy for you.

Can't, what can I say re: your MIL's comments? Hope they didn't hurt you too much, and that you just took them with a grain of salt as they deserved. My MIL does try, it's just that she doesn't 'do' grief well at all. We call her the 'ostrich'. If you want to know what really happens in these situations (the loss of a child) all you need to do is read the book my MIL gave me just before Bella was born. It was written by a psychic and MIL told me it 'explained' why these things happen. I scanned the book and apparently any child under 4 years of age (including mc's, stillbirths, SIDS etc) can 'change their mind' about their parents. It goes on with so much garbarge. I hope no one finds that hurtful. I just found it absolutely laughable. When MIL asked me what I thought if the book I told her (I am usually polite) that it was the biggest load of s**t I had come across in a long time, and that if one was stupid enough to believe it, it would be quite hurtful. She just thinks I am a skeptic, which I'm actually not. It's just that I'm not stupid either.

Oh my, look at my rambling post. Had more to ramble about too.

Babylily, I'm sorry you were let down by your midwife. Things like that can be really hurtful. Maybe, as someone suggested, she hadn't heard? Tree would be a lovely midwife. I don't think she has been on here much since you first posted (computer problems), but when she returns, you'll see what I mean

Viv, good luck with TTC. Hope you can relax a bit and make the most out of it - the men usually appreciate this time (to which I say lap it up while it lasts).

Hello to MrsBG and to everyone else

Have a good day all xxxxx