support thread for women who have chosen to terminate IV

[bezzyk]

Hello ladies old and new.

Here's hoping this thread brings better luck and much happiness.

Lots of love

BK xx

Respect to Viv indeed. I like the sound of a champagne cocktail. The rest of it - wow - and wow that you are sat at your desk this morning (not moaning into your pillow).

Instead of a champagne cocktail, I have been out in the snow. With no wellies... DD is a snow convert. She now has a sledge and sets of willing ten year olds pulling her along the street. All good except my feet are still not thawed.

Numpty - congratulations! When are you due?

at all the snow stories. Its snowing here as I write. Actually not had much so far. A bit yesterday but was quite wet then froze later which made the pavements very hazardous. Had school Christmas party in village hall. We walked up and afterwards carols round the tree outside the church. It was freezing! Came home for large glass of mulled wine after.

This morning car wouldn't start - my most reliable car ever, first time in 7 years its not started but realised the battery is just worn out so dh ordered a new one. Neighbour gave ds2 a lift to nursery so just spent the day pottering about at home.

Someone, cantdo I think asked about presents, its just been lots of small things this year. They are all getting alarm clocks from Santa, talking ones & ds2 a Wallace & Gromit one. Won't bore you with the list of other things, except the all in one sleepsuits which we've got specially made for the older kids and (ahem) even ordered ones for me and dh We are going to look very silly like giant babies! But cosy and essential in our only partially heated house!

My extended family present exchange party on Sunday, we only give small stuff and the rest to charity. Not sure what charity to give to this year, so many worthy causes....

Sorry I seem to have blabbed on about myself rather. Hope your hangovers have subsided Viv and Bee, and everyone else is well and not getting too frazzled with Christmas preps.

Enjoy the snow folks.

xxxx

Thank you all for your congratulations - you're the first people I've told, I'm not really in a rush to tell anyone this time round, almost as if it reminds them of last time. Although my boss guessed at one point and I had to lie outright - will have to apologise to her in due course but really didn't want to tell anyone until we knew more.

I'm just over 12 weeks now; due date is end June (so mid July in my case, if DS anything to go by). And by then I'll be 40 [bloody-hell-how-did-that-happen emoticon]. I'm always envious of energetic young mums when I go to playgroup, but then I wasn't really energetic when I was younger so I don't think much has changed really. Just the face .

No snow here, just a brief flurry yesterday. Eulalia - your snow/Christmas celebrations sound lovely. And I think my BIL had one of those all-in-one things when he lived in Nairn; they are great when not living in a super-heated city (or overlooked by curious neighbours...).

Can't believe the list of drinks Viv got through - like Justa, mine's a beer and I'm a cheap date, takes a couple of shandies usually... and very impressed at being at work by 9am! Hope Bee is better too, now.

Think I'm in for an early night, off to tackle the washing up then see if DS has actually gone to sleep. What an exciting Friday before Christmas! (DH is on Xmas night out so I'm home alone).

Hope all others in difficult times are OK...

I'm also really hoping emmabemmasmom is OK after Wednesday, knowing how difficult it was going to be for her to go through . We've all been in the situation where you question whether it was the right thing to do - but none of us took the decision lightly, you do what is best for your family, your circumstances, at the time.

So I really hope it went well, and that you are feeling at peace.

Hi everyone, just found this thread and like Emmabemmasmom, I had a termination last week. Was the hardest thing I've ever done, our baby was diagnosed with Trisomy 18 and many problems found at the 12 week scan including a severe heart defect. It was the most heart breaking thing I have ever done, and am the moment the only thing getting me through is my husband, family and DS.

I just wanted to ask whether most of you had counselling straight after? Did it help? At the moment I just can't ever imagine having to go through this again and don't know if I will have another child. I know it's early days and these feelings are probably completely normal but I don't know anyone who's been through this to ask. It seems so different to having a natural miscarriage and the heart break of having to make that choice and having a termination is too much to even think about sometimes as it hurts so much. I'm worried I will never ever get over this and what I've done.

Thank you for reading and any advise you have

Hello helenlouisey, I'm so sorry you have to be here. Welcome to a lovely supportive thread.

I haven't experienced what you have, I just linger and lurk on the thread. Others will be along to reassure you that everything you feel and have felt is normal and understandable. To reassure you you will smile again and feel less achey, in time.

I'm so sorry you had this decision to make.

Also wondering how emmabemmasmum is. x

Dear helenlouisey - I'm so sorry to hear that you have been through this. I lost a baby this summer at 15wks after diagnosis of trisomy 13 (my hosp don't do routine nuchal scans, so the problems showed up on booking scan at 13wks and were confirmed with cvs). It IS so hard, grieving for the baby you thought you had and the future you thought would be there, then wondering what is best for the baby you DO have and your family, esp if you have other young children. I actually spoke to someone from the SOFT UK support group (supports families with diagnosis of trisomy 13 or 18) and if you are in the UK you might still find it helpful to talk to them; the woman I spoke to had been in a similar situation to me, with a toddler when her 2nd baby was diagnosed with trisomy 13, and she had decided to end the pregnancy. All I can say is that if you found making the decision and going through with it hard, it is BECAUSE you were considering what was best for everyone, in love and in grief. As someone from my church put it to me, you could view what you did as releasing that baby early from a path of suffering. Although I took the decision to terminate the pregnancy, at a scan the day before I learned that my baby had actually died - so these problems can be very severe, and it may be that you only brought forward the date of the inevitable.

Does your hospital arrange a funeral? This might be a good time to release some of these feelings. I did things like write a letter to my daughter and put it in the coffin, saying how sorry I was and how much I loved her and hoped to see her in a future world. I think other people have found counselling useful but I've not had experience of this myself. Ask at your hospital and see if it's something they can provide.

Above all, let yourself grieve. You and your family have been through the most difficult, heartbreaking experience and you have to live through the grief, in whatever way seems best to you. Talking about it on here really helps, as others here understand.

I hope that you will find some peace in times ahead, xx.

Hi Helenlouisey

I too am really sorry you had to go through this.

I have had 2 babies diagnosed with fatal conditions, one a chromosomal problem detected at 12 weeks and one a developmental problem (no kidneys) at 20 weeks and have had 2 terminations. Both following a straightforward pregnancy with DD. I found the decision itself really difficult - not whether to terminate or not, because it seemed to me to be the only real option, but living with that afterwards. I have had no counselling, although I was offered it - I just happen to find it easier not to talk about it. I think people are divided on how helpful it is - but if you feel it might help, it is definitely a good idea.

Some time later for me - first loss over a year ago, second in early June - I still feel the pain of the decision and the loss. But it's the loss, more than the decision itself, that is hard to get beyond. And you do feel better, you start to remember less often, to laugh again more. Christmas is a hard time for all of this. What helped me was knowing I had a beautiful DD who needed me - and it was carrying on with her as normal that helped me.

You will get there. Some days are worse than others and gradually there are fewer black days and more smiles.

Emmabemmasmom, I am thinking of you too. Again this is so hard over Christmas. Remember you have two gorgeous children who love you.

Quick - and yes Viv tipsy again!- post. As Bezz and i find, really, being slightly merry and 'on the sauce' is the only way to endure the pain and loss and grief that threatens to swamp.
Firstly to say, hello HelenLouisey. The early days of post termination are a blur to me - two for T21. But I still feel a strange attachment to that period. Whilst my heart was broken, and still is, there was at least some connection to the baby, the loss and some mark of what had been endured. On the matter of counselling; for me I have been in therapy for years anyway. If I am honest, being here has rescued me, comforted me and provided a space, a voice and a compassionate response in a way that therapy never can. But each woman is different. You may value the privacy, the space of counselling. You will take tiny steps lovey. You have endured a terrible shock- mentally and physically. It takes a long time. Even today, over a year since the first one, eight months since the second, I sobbed in the car. The loss can capture the moment, take it from you. It is an utterly necessary part of grieving. Almost you must surrender and KNOW it will pass. It will.

Numptymum - congratulations to you my dear. And thank you for sharing with us.

Everyone else - including other new women, Emmabemmasmum, a boozy wave to you.
I have spent the evening with a heavily pregnant friend - it was okay. I am detached. Possibly helped by the Lanson. Gotta love a friend who brings Lanson.

Viv- are you near me i wonder in old London town? All respect to you for the booze fest - hands up. You da champ. And the drink choices sound truly inspired. Could do with a little top up....

Ahhh - I have an achey heart. You know when your period comes and it aches?? It is not pleasant but there is some familiarity and necessity about it that is some kind of relief and you can give into it? I feel like that a bit with my grief. My loss is part of me and achey, needs comfort and quiet and tears and a hot water bottle and it passes. And returns..........

Hello all and welcome to Helenlouisey.

So sorry you've had to join us here. I terminated back in April for T21, and like you thought I'd never be happy again. You will. Regarding your question on therapy, I didn't go down that route. I gave myself some time and spent a LOT of time on this thread, and the lovely ladies here assured me that what I was feeling was completely normal. It helped to know that I wasn't alone, as when I first had the termination, I thought I was the only person in the world to do such an evil thing. I also thought NEVER again was I going to have to make such a choice and thought I'd never try again, but I did. Unfortunately, that didn't end well, with a missed miscarriage, discovered when I went for my first scan at 11 weeks. But I now feel that we HAVE to have another baby, to prove that the pain and suffering from this year wasn't for nothing. I don't want my memories of my last attempt of trying for a baby was heartache. I want the memory to be a beautiful little child. Somebody on this thread (Unfortunately, I don't remember who) once said something so wise, which I will never forget:

'when the pain of not trying for a baby exceeds the pain of the loss of the terminated baby, it's time to try again'

To me, that made perfect sense.

I don't post much here these days, as I'm doing LOTS better, I do keep reading though. It's comforting to know though, that when the days are dark, it's always a place I feel safe, and know that I'll get some understanding support and wise words.

I'm doing OK on this side, like Bee, I'm enjoying a regular festive binge tipple. Still no word from the GP on my test results from miscarried baby...mmm...guess I'll give up on that one. Presents all bought and wrapped. I guess I'm ready for Friday...

Much love all

BK xxx

Hi all just to say hello and seasons greetings to you all - haven't posted for a month or so but have been thinking of you all. Xmas is a mixed time for us - fun of seeing family and friends and seeing DS enjoy himeself but deep sadness that Ewen our son would have been born on 26th. Sad though it is I am feeling more optomistic and determined that 2010 will work out for us and we will get there - despite my advanced age!! (Its taken 3 months but I think I've finally accepted I'm 40 and officially grown up!!!).

Bee - just wanted to send you my love as well - you always write so wonderfully - I'm so glad I've met you and the others on this thread - when it happended I thought I must be the only person in the world that this has happended to twice but now I know that I am not alone and even though I only 'dip in' occassionally its a great comfort to know you are all there.

Well enough of my ramblings my thoughts with you all for a peaceful and happy Christmas.

Love.

PF

A big bah humbug from me who typed out a massive reply two hours ago, only for me to just realise it was never posted. Boo and indeed hiss.

Welcome to helenlouisey. I'm so very sorry that you've had to come and join us here, but as a relative newbie to the thread, I can assure you that you're amongst friends.

I lost a daughter last month after a scan at 13 weeks showed probable Turner's Syndrome. It was, and still is awful but I can promise you that things do slowly get brighter.

I have personally found that if I can say to myself every day, "You are about as okay as you possibly can be in the circumstances" then it gives me the strength to take that day as it comes. Sometimes it might be a teary day; sometimes it might be a happy day - however, it means I don't beat myself up if I'm feeling low or feel guilty if I'm having fun. You'll find your own way to get through this, but while you do, we're here to hold your hand.

Bezzy - your words about trying again have really struck a chord with me as DH and I have decided to give it another go. It's terrifying, but I'm determined that 2010 will be our year.

Bee - I'm not in London village, I'm afraid - I'm in Manchester - but used to live in Chiswick before moving back oop north.

BTW - my hangover wasn't too painful in the end. Unlike some of my colleagues who were caught misbehaving, and so who had to do the office equivalent of the 'walk of shame' on Friday morning.

Anyway, press releases to write and interviews to arrange. Much love to all. xxx

Hi everyone, thank you for all your messages, they have helped a lot. At times I'm feeling ok, usually when I'm being distracted by my little boy and then something seems to happen and I just lose it and can't stop crying. Neither my husband or myself are sleeping well, both of us were wide awake at mid night last night, so not having much sleep probably isn't helping either.

I've decided to take this week off work as really need some time to come to terms with what's happened and also spend time with my DS, also not sure the office or a meeting is a good place to suddenly burst into tears and lose it.

I've also been thinking a lot about whether we'll have any more children, but I think now is probably the wrong time to be thinking about it and Bezzyk you are very right that I will know when the time is right again, if ever, when it is more painful not to TTC than the pain of what has happened over the past few weeks.

I have bought a box and put all my numerous scan pictures in (I think I had 5 scans in total due to various other complications earlier on in the pregnancy) and I've bought a holly tree which I want to plant to remember the baby. Not sure whether this is the right thing to do but it feels right to me at the moment.

I know the pain will ease with time but at the moment it's difficult to imagine when that time will be when every day doesn't hurt like mad

x x x

Hello newbies
Just wanted to reach out and confirm that the wise words of Justa are so delicately and correctly formed. Like a storm, there is no fighting it. The waves of agony are almost it occurs to me now like the waves of pain when in transition in labour. You just feel that you cannot possibly endure such agony. The terrible irony being that there is no wonderful baby to hold at the end.
But the waves lessen, they are present but gentler. Rather than being alone on the top of a wave, it can feel like being in a snug boat, you feel the waves, but you are wrapped up here on our thread and there are women holding your hand and shushing you and saying 'I know love'.
Then one day, you wake up and the sun shines quietly. The wave comes maybe once or twice and is smaller.
Sometimes not having a storm to deal with can feel odd, wrong. It is not wrong, but it feels sad.
Each little day and minute and moment is necessary and hard and to be endured.
I am sorry you are feeling such acute pain; it is a hard time of the year too for this acuteness.

We are quiet all of us at the moment - I know why. I think we are yes busy, but also quietly contemplating our year, maybe our losses, our what-could-have- beens.
Thinking of you all
Bee xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Hello helenlouisey and welcome here, I don't think I can add anything to the eloquent words spoken here, particularly justa and Bee. I had a termination in March (gosh is it really so long ago?) for T21. It does get much easier but for me much easier as I don't have the agony of trying again. The sorrow will never completely go and I think its one of those things that can come back quite unexpectedly. So just be prepared and don't give yourself a timescale thats the thing about grief it will always be there somewhere, its just how you cope with it that changes.

For me I think I am glad the year is ending and am determined to do it on a high note with my lovely family. I am considering a short counselling session as I have done a little with a lovely lady a couple of years ago (regarding my son) and it really helped. There's a lot I've not talked about here and I've never really just gone through the whole thing from beginning to end. For instance with this being my last baby I have this sort of pre-fear of the future of the day my last child leaves home of it all suddendly coming back and thinking, but there should be one other....seems daft I know thinking about something so far ahead, I just want to be prepared as I know things can be buried for years, so its probably good that I am thinking about it now.

However not been doing much thinking about past or future this past week with Christmas events upon us. Looks like it will be a white one! Not had much more snow but what has fallen is still around. Went sledging yesterday and it was great fun and helped to tire the kids out.

Anyway not really caught up on the thread yet so will have a read through.

xxx

Hi all

Helenlouisey, I think preserving some kind of memory of the child is a really good thing. I didn't of my first lost daughter - my second was at 20 weeks and so I had photos and handprints etc. Having something tangible to help remember a not-quite-person who the world doesn't see as real honestly is very important. It gives you something to hang your emotions on to when there seems to be nothing left, but you still want/need to remember.

I second what others have said about trying again.

Oh and I also agree with Viv: I was always faintly surprised by how I managed through the pain and horror of it. As though I was stronger than I thought I could be, and that in itself helped me carry on.

Eulalia - sounds like your counsellor is a good 'un. And I understand your worry that the loss will come back to bite harder in years to come. I dont know how these sort of things work as none of us has reached the years to come yet - guess we will find out - but if you do have someone good to talk to, then it makes sense. Oh and please please please could we see a family pic in your sleepsuits???? It must look so funny.

Hi Bee. Your voice is so strong and eloquent. How are you? I loved what you said about quietly contemplating. I am, in the midst of frantically organizing. There's a little contemplative part of me. And another anxious part.

Hi Pelvic and everyone else.

Family arriving shortly, so will struggle to be online much over the next week. I am thinking of you though.

A big hug to you Cantdo and Eulalia too - frantic yes. Who would have thought we would still have presents to get, pies to mince, gifts to wrap, cards to write, sick children to nurse in my case and pregnant tummies to mind in some of your cases.
I recognise your sentiment exactly Eulalia - projecting into the future; how much worse will the loss be? We can not know but can only deal with today.
Off to see if can find any defrostable pastry in freezer - needs must and all that.
kisses to you my little snowwomen
Bee xxxxxxxxx

Hello people.

Am back from 2 nights away. Am about to begin the mammoth gift wrapping session.

Will be back to read and post. Bee, yet another phone dsaster, how do I manage it Was planning to send you a hello text over the weekend. x

Hello. Going mental here as my inlaws TALK SO MUCH! And also need endless cups of tea.

However - good news, very good news, is my 'reassurance scan' was very reassuring. So a relaxed(ish) Christmas for me. I am finally starting to believe in this.

Meanwhile, I am already talked out.

Hurrah Can't!!! Hurrah!!

Enjoy some peace of mind.

Wow justa. That is very soon! I guess you realise that though.....
You could stay over if it would help? Or ring Delivery Suite and ask if you can be last on the list, and the latest you could arrive. If I know where you are delivering [which I think I do] the Delivery Suite manager is a lovely star who would try help. There is always a way around these things.

How is everyone? Lins? How are you doing mrs!?

Hi all - busy, busy here as I'm sure you all are, so will be as brief as possible.

Tree, I never congratulated you and your miracle-making eggs. Fantastic work!

Can't, so glad on your progress report and that you can relax a bit for Christmas day.

Justa, not long now. I am as excited for you as I ever have been for those i know in RL. Can't wait for the big news!

Eulalia, your Christmas day plans sound lovely. Wish I didn't have to go anywhere. I saw the pics of your gorgeous kids - will put up some of mine when I figure out how. Yours and MrsBG pics are the only ones I could find (and yes, even without the head you can see she's a hottie).

To all the new ladies, i'm sorry I haven't made time to welcome you all, but I have been reading, and know that these lovely ladies here will offer you words of comfort when needed. Viv, with the wise advice you have so kindly offered others so early on, it seems like you have learnt alot about grief in a short time - I suppose we have no choice do we? One thing I like about this thread is that there are no expectations of us as there so often is in RL. You can drop in and drop out whenever it suits, share or not share whatever you feel like, and know there are people here that have an understanding of how you might be feeling, without having to explain or justify our thoughts.

Oh, have realised I'm rambling - meant to keep this short. So Bee, Lins, Bezzy and all of you, just want to wish you all a beautiful Christmas Day for tomorrow. Will be thinking of you all - oh and I am SO, SO of your snow! A white Christmas is something we over here could only dream of. You know they sell fake spray-on snow in the shops here for people to spray on their windows/tree etc - never mind that it's roasting hot outside!

Well, off to do our ritual Christmas Eve drive to see the lights ( which the kids love not least because they get to eat Macca's in the car).

Merry Christmas all xxxx

ps. I survived DD's b'day sleepover - only 6 in the end as 2 couldn't come and 3 were actually boys I said the boys were most welcome to come for a play on both days, but perhaps not a sleepover ( I know I for one would never have slept a wink with teenage boys and girls sharing a tent in the backyard!)

xxxx