support thread for women who have chosen to terminate II

[brightonbaby]

Erm, trying to create a new thread for us, ladies. Not sure if I've succeeded...

I've written 3 posts and deleted them all. They were all too much, to invasive, full of advice and questions and too long winded. Moi? Long winded?

Llins - I echo everyone here. And GU in particular. It's ok to feel too tired to get excited. Weteher that is because you are knackered and burnt out, or because it has stepped up a notch into depression, time will tell.

Honestly, in my own time, I'd probably go to a good Gp or a good midwife. If it's depression, then all the sleep, space and time in the world won't sush the negative snarling voice that drowns out your own. AN depression is real, it happens. That's ok, it needs dealing with by others, with you helping out to get you better, when and where you can.

If it's exhaustion, burn out, numbness, then what harm in exploring it further with some sensible health people who can watch over you. So you don't have to watch over yourself. One less responsibility for you. Let them decide and deal with it. In this case a period of total 'down time' might help, totally no responsibilty for such things as shopping, menu planning, appointments and so on. Total rest for the brain - to let it heal and stop shuddering under the weight of the sensory and emotional overload you have experienced.

Dear Lins - who is a source of knowledge, and a comforter, and a guiding, skilled hand helping people going through some of the blackest times. How can we help? Talk and talk and talk if you want to. It's just 4 months since your last great trauma Lins. I can't believe it really. 4 months since those heart breaking gut wrenching times that made me feel physically sick with saddness and terror. That was only from reading the posts of a person online. To live through it. Good grief, I actually can't imagine it, I go hot and cold at the thought. It's too painful to contemplate.

All I can say in conclusion is no wonder. No wonder you feel the way you do tonight. I don't blame you or wonder at it. There are many roads forward however, away from this void. You might need a bit of help getting on the right one for you, that's all. Once on it I know you will go well. You are so emotionally insightful Lins, so able, you will reach a more comfortable and more real place than this.

Hello Tree
After hours and hours of talking to my therapist about the loss of my marriage, my early traumas, the stress of running a family of three children and a BIG job with no bloody husband around, I remember saying to her one day 'It is almost like I am the fourth child in my family and i have to remember to look after the little Bee inside me.' S'ppose not particularly new or insightful realisation but for me at that time. it was.
But the dilemma is, and was, sometimes I am too worn out to be able to. And in fact, in some terrible twist, it is more important to look after little Bee than anyone else; since if I tumble, well, we all do.
I needed to know this.
I am still not very good at it.
But I do see it and recognise the warning signs. You have the warning signs dearest Lins but you are doing something about it. You will not fall far.
That is partly why I am here of course on our cosy thread. You all help look after me, and I am wanting to do the same for you.
Simple.
And it works - it really works.
Is normal, normal ,normal. Why would you be jumping up and down with joy, when you have had to let go of Daisy? Does not make sense.
It takes loooonnng time. Do not try and look out for us at the moment - we are doing okay aren't we fellow matrons of the Cottage Sick Bay?
Tree is standing beneath a blossom tree holding a seminar for the sisterhood on cashmere, warm milky drinks and ambient lighting. She then pops around the ward dispensing smiles and hugs and gentle goodnights.
GO - pregnant and wise - sits on the sofa snuggled up with all the weepy ones.
I am standing at the doorway, looking out at the sea, I think I spot another wee boat sailing towards us with a new friend, and smiling to myself that you are all safely warm inside, safe and understood. I am locking up now. Milk bottles out. Lights on dim.
Night ladies.

Hi Lins,

I got pregnant again three months after losing Lucia, so a bit longer than you, but I didn't easily connect with the baby either for ages. I remember bleeding at 9 weeks and lying cradling my stomach thinking 'I will do everything I can to save you' but knowing that I couldn't if something was wrong meant I was both intensely bound to the baby and a bit disconnected too. I think that's where the problem lies - we are incredibly attached to the baby on the one hand and yet can't believe in a normal pregnancy on the other.

I echo the others. Don't expect too much of yourself, just live through this quietly. Forget the housework. Hug your DD. And allow yourself to remember Daisy.

And eventually you will celebrate this healthy baby. Just don't expect too much of a psyche that has been shattered twice already.

Morning all.

Thinking of Lins and wondering how you are feeling today.

And Numpty and wondering how things are going.

and all our mammas.

Lovely Lins

I just wanted to say that I totally empathize with where you are at the moment. I ranted along much the same lines earlier last week. This is so awful and so unfair. Should be a time of joy and hope. So much for 'should be's'...

Growing Out and Tree gave me similar, brilliant advice at the time. I have an appointment booked at the gp today and will sound off discuss it with him then. For me, tiredness is a key factor. I am usually a poor sleeper, but now, after a night of no sleep, all my demons come crushing in for the whole next day.

And you're not alone. PCR was negative but now I am enduring the wait for the full karyotype which we were told would be 2-3 weeks and we're now at 2 and I'm convinced I'm going to be told about some rare rare defect or arrangement. I am a manic googler which doesn't help. At all.

I am taking the line that this is just something to be worked through. Day by day. But boy, is it hard. Your comments on gender are interesting. I found out at PCR that we are expecting a boy, however, this makes it all the more real, a potential son. And loss all the more gutting.

My DH suggested little steps to make every day a little more positive. We finally told my mum on Sunday, and suddenly, my support system has doubled, which is good. I'm trying to work out what today's positive action might be. Thinking of getting myself some rescue remedy, for when it is all just too much.

I doubt that my ramblings are of any help but I just wanted to let you know that I understand.

Numptymum - I was thinking about you yesterday and wondered how you are today.

Luckywinner - so pleased to see that you've stuck around.

Take care both.

Hello you, it's good to hear from you

How about a trip to Boots for rescue remedy, and then go buy some flowers. Really nice ones.

Chamomilla is good for feelings of tense, anxiety and anger if you have any of those? Chills me and Hatts out anyway!

Lovely ladies, you are all so kind. Thank you. I knew it would be ok to write all this because I count you as friends. I've read your messages, cried a bit, and just feel weary today.
My Mum (busiest woman in the world) has agreed to have dd for a bit today so I can go to the osteopaths. Should have gone months (years?) ago, but its so bad now it's really the last straw.
I should be less than a month from having Daisy if she was still here. Here go the tears again.
I just want to stop the world and get off for a bit.
This pregnancy feels like a hard stone I am carrying around, and it's heavy. (Not literally?) I don't see it as a baby at all. Everything is wrong.
ok, deep breath and one step at a time. Going to make a cup of tea, and hope it stays down.
I'll be back later!
xx

Hi Tree.

Flowers it is then! Excellent suggestion, as always.

You ok?

Me? Grand - just waiting for it to get easier You are right about the day to day managing I think. The brain gets so used to worrying it can't stop - so setting a daily goal can help break that habit of constant anxiety.

Lins - I'm really proud of you . I think you did an amazing thing writing all that out, not least when you haven't the energy to do anything.

Hope the back man can help you. Small steps is right - so back man is today's misson.

Is there a summer club or something dd could go to? A gymnastics or ballet camp or something? An hour a day for a few days might be a lovely bit of space for you?

Morning to you Shangrila and to Tree and everyone
Shangrila-I am hoping and praying that your full Karyotype comes back beautifully and let's be honest your babies have had T21 and the other one and they have come back clear for that, haven't they?
I once rang the woman at ARC in a mess about trying again and asked her 'do you know any women who have tried again after two terminations for T21?' She said yes. But that is was 9 months of hell. She is not wrong is she?
In the end though, once you are through the exhaustion, fear, discomfort and you have a wee boy in your arms, this is not the bit you will remember.
Dearest Lins- your analogy of the pregnancy feeling like a heavy stone to be carried is so apt. How can your body and mind relax into a blooming, joyful state when it has been tricked, abused, and misled twice before?
One day at a time darling - and little tiny treats as Shangrila says.
I hope the backache eases a bit today after the healing hands of the osteopath. Are DH's parents nearby to help too if your mum busy?
Wish I was nearer - wee gal of yours would be distraced and adored by my big boys.
Speak later all
Bee

Hi ladies

Lins, glad you've got yourself to the osteopath. And I agree with the little steps - baby steps, even.

Shangrila, I have my fingers very very firmly crossed for you - but the nuchal and everything went well; no reason to assume the karotype will reveal anything amiss - but then I understand why you would imagine it that way.

Hi Bee and Tree. Bee, been meaning to ask you. If your baby-longing is partly linked with LM and his baby-longing, have you spoken to him about it, and does he want to try again? Tree, how old is Harriet now? whaty funny things does she do?

DD loves her new kitchen. It's the ELC sizzlin kitchen in pink. She has made endless meals already. I have a budding Nigella here...

Ahh Canto - I love the idea of the hot pink kitchen and her with little pots and pans. I remember mine making 'mixes' with pasta and water and food colouring and all sorts of horridness.
Re the LM - of course I have spoken to him about it!! For hours. He feels very much like me I think. One minute hopeful, the other unable to face the trauma that we have been confronted with twice now.
But he has a bigger loss in a way. He has lost the option of being a daddy and this is exacerbated by my three children - tis bittersweet as they provide joy and family life for him but a reminder of what he does not have.
So we bumble along and right now are not talking much about but planning a new kitchen instead. Not quite the same... but is distracting at least.
We are good and strong together - but the sadness and the hole are real.
Sniff sniff
Bee
ps have a good day you two Nigellas!

Sorry Bee, I didnt mean you hadnt spoken to him - I wondered what his take on it was. I guess up and down is where we all are, really. And it must be so hard for him because he hasn't had his own children yet. Bee, I want your happy ending so much. Happy beginning, rather. I so want things to work for you. Whichever way you go forward.

A new kitchen - a fab start. I love kitchens. I moved last year and our house has a lovely kitchen, fab storage space. And a giant American fridge-freezer. It is far from the huge country kitchen I would ideally have, but I live in the suburbs, and my kitchen suits my home.

Curiously, I was just pestered by some religious door to door people. This was a woman with two kids, aged about 8 and 10, and a baby. the oldest child started asking me if I believed in our Saviour and if I would talk to her about it. It was very hard to get rid of them because the three children were there, but the mum became quite pushy. Strange, isn't it, that parents would use their kids in door to door evangelism?

Yikes - how unsettling. Someone on this thread - was it Bezzy?- had some door-to-door evanegelism right at a time when it was inappropriate and unsettling.
No need to say sorry - did not mean to be a stingy bee! - just ahhh the amount of talking.
Re kitchens - I want an american one but silly kitchen builder man says there is not enough room in my kitchen. So make room please. In the end of Sunday I had to go and lie on my bed as was getting so stressed by kitchen man's attitude to me.
Can not have the baby I want, now can not have the kitchen either.
Pathetic aren't I really?
Sun coming and going here- am trying hard to focus on jobs that need doing but curiously keep finding myself here talking to you Cantdo.
Is addictive to share a part of my life here that almost no-one, in fact really no-one, in the real world understands at all, at all.
Off to tidy and possibly weed the garden.
Will pop back inevitably.
hugs to you Cantdo - wish we could share a cup of tea together and admire your fridge!

I just wanted to pop in and send my love to everyone. I'm sorry I haven't been posting much recently. I've been reading and following, but haven't had the right words. So glad there are so many here that do. We've had a low week or two on this thread, I'm glad the cottage fire has been kept going. Sending my heartfelt thought to everyone going through low times right now. Thank heaven for this thread.

I'm away for a few days, but will try to keep reading.

(I almost signed off with my real name, there, I feel like I'm so close to you all!!), anyway, brightonbaby out. (I'm going to try and change my name now, if it works, to brighton girl. So, will be back as that. Take care everyone.

meant to say 'thoughts' obviously, oops. Not just one thought to share!

Have a good few day away Brighton Girlie - and am glad you are following - no need to always post of course.
I am an obsessive writer downer of things - although did not realise how vital it was until all this happened.
It has helped me and continues to do so. Giving written form to the thoughts and feelings renders them somehow more manageable. If they stay inside me, they can overwhelm me and drive me frankly bonkers. I need to see them here; planted down somewhere concrete with friends who know.
I know what you mean about instinctively writing your own name - I do it too sometimes. Although now I am beginning to feel like my name is in fact Bee. Therein madness lies.
Anyone have a summer gentle book recommendation? Not crime or thriller though - not my bag although, hey, could give it a shot!

Back from the shops with rescue remedy and a large bunch of stargazers, courtesy of M&S. So at least if I have a night of total panic, it will be in a beautifully scented house.

Kitchens are the life blood of a home, aren't they? Ours is the biggest room in the house and it's where we do most of our stuff. DH would dearly love a plasma screen on the wall, but I am standing firm on that one. How can I indulge my Nigella fantasies when I have DH sprawled on a sofa, watching the footie as I bake and try my utmost to be the perfect domestic goddess? (And fail miserably) Cantdo - DD had one of those play kitchens. Does it have a hob that can make a lovely sizzling noise? Always made me want to go out to a seedy caff for an all day breakfast!

Good to see you back Brighton Girl but sorry you have been low. The dips can feel like a real kick in the teeth and when you're there, it's almost impossible to think of things getting better. I suppose the cliche is that they just do, but the hanging around waiting for the fog to clear is a real pain in the butt. Have a good few days away, if you can.

Bee - my gentle summer book is a Richard and Judy Summer read . The Piano Teacher. Set in Hong Kong in WW2 and its aftermath. Nice writing, not too trashy. And you're off to HK soon aren't you? Or is that someone else? I have wonderful memories of a misspent youth in the Godown bar. Crikey, that's a lifetime ago!

It's funny, isn't it - the name thing? I am the least Shangri-la looking person you'll ever come across. I once spent a long time on a support forum for ectopic pregnancy and one Christmas we all met up. Hilarious. Our images of each other were all so, so wrong.

Better get on with some work! Love to all.

Busierbee, have you read any Sarah Waters books? The Fingersmith is a really good one. Really well written and a good story too.

Linspins hope you are doing ok today.

Numptymum am thinking of you.

Hello again.

Bee, I just ordered the Secret Life of Bees from Amazon. I've heard it's a good book. Sort of apt, in the bee theme for you. The last book I read was the Book Thief, which is beautifully and unusually written, a little sad, so maybe not a happy summer read.

Shangri-la, you're right, thinking about it, I have an image in my head of you all. How funny.

Thank you all for your thoughts over the last few days. Yesterday went as well as it could - I only needed one pessary, and only 2 paracetamol, she arrived at 2.17pm. She was so, so small. Too small and fragile to hold or even touch. But amazing, perfect hands, one hand would have fitted entirely into the size of my little fingernail.

Almost the worst part was waiting for the bloody placenta to arrive, grr. Shades of when DS was born, after which I had to have a spinal to fix me up so I couldn't spend time with him and felt really sick coming round. Yesterday I was really worried they were going to give me a GA to get placenta out, and that would stop me from spending time with DD. Just as the midwife was due to prep me for op, it came out - prayers answered.

So finally DH and I could spend time with DD and have her blessed. I've called her Iola. We cried many, many tears; but it was actually good to see just how small she was, how she had gone early to a better place. I think she was only around 13wks in size, even if 15wks in age. Today I'm... feeling at peace? Empty? Tired. xx

Numptymum, Iola, such a beautiful name.
I am unable to find any words that seem appropriate to say right now, but I just wanted to say I hope you feel some peace from her birth and am so glad you got to spend that precious time with your much loved daughter.