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support thread for women who have chosen to terminate

1000 replies

busierbee · 16/04/2009 22:53

Hello
Busier Bee here - I felt that before I went to bed I wanted to open up officially a new place for weary travellers of those on the road that we have chosen to rest our heads, muse, sob, moan and support each other.
Also the kind, compassionate souls who have not been there but who offer their support and lend an ear and pass a gentle word.
We have chosen to be here and we are here and we are not alone.
Thank you so much all of you -for I personally do not know where I would have been in the last few weeks without you all.
Night - sleep well
kisses and thoughts
BB xx

OP posts:
marj1 · 17/05/2009 15:51

Justa & JumpingJellyFish - thinking of you both tomorrow, hope all goes well.

treedelivery · 17/05/2009 16:39

Hello people,

Am feeling the pain of BB at the mo, are you alright Bee? Do off load and tell us how you are feeling, the thread is here for that. If you want to. x

I think until there is a medical breakthrough or something, then chance has caused your misery. I don't know how one makes peace with that. I have no idea having never had to. YOu seem to have heaps to make peace with, it will be a journey. We are here to come along the journey as much as we can.

Big days for Justa and JJF tomorrow. Sending vibes to you.

Hi to all, big waves to marj1 and linso and Bezzy and Shangrila and linspins.

Linspins - so sorry for poor littlelinspins. Sounds awfull.

bezzyk · 17/05/2009 19:48

good luck for tomorrow Justa and JJF, I'll be logged on waiting for your updates. Try and get some sleep tonight, easier said than done though I know.

Hi to everybody else, good to see you pop in Mrs Pins, hope you get back online soon

B xx

busierbee · 17/05/2009 20:42

So all good thoughts and wishes to you tomorrow Justa - sounds very much like wee bean thriving in there - and you will hopefully see a little heartbeat.
JJF - a moment of immense bravery required - you have embarked on this journey knowing that it will be so tough for you all - the waiting is unbearable - and I pray that all is well. You sound a thoughtful and measured person - and I am glad you have found us.
Thank you for your words - am trying to feel some peace but not possible at moment.
I await tomorrow's updates and if we can distract you with chatter then chat away.
Tree - I will email you later if get time to - Big Girl has GCSE tomorrow in the dreaded maths and i am presenting new training to 30 people for two days and is overwhelming stressful to be so 'on show' when feel so small and scared and private.
Lins - you must be worn out poor girl.

OP posts:
justaboutspringtime · 17/05/2009 21:21

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treedelivery · 17/05/2009 21:40

Why would you need to replace car? Have I missed something or are you thinking new bean car seat?

linspins · 17/05/2009 21:58

Hi all, have now got computer back but MUST go to bed soon as work tomorrow and soooooo tired.
Realised just now that the message i posted earlier was written without reading the whole of the last page of messages - so sorry if it sounded odd!

Most importantly, Bee - hugs and love to you. You are all in a tizz and it's such a difficult time for you, with info to process, decisions to think about and heart to heal. xxx

Justa and Jumpingjelly, will be thinking of you this week and keeping fingers so tightly crossed for you both. Good luck. We are all for you. xxx

Think this is going to be a tough week with Dd still poorly with the pox, and now Dh has a stinking cold, (hope he doesn't pass it to me!). Think we could all do with a day snugged up on the sofa, but gotta go to work mon and tues, hey ho.

Sleep well to all of you. xxxx love Lins xxx

justaboutspringtime · 18/05/2009 07:34

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treedelivery · 18/05/2009 10:19

Good luck today.

Sending vibes......

JumpingJellyfish · 18/05/2009 14:02

Good afternoon all

Justabout still thinking of you, really hope all goes/went well

Sadly today was a no-go for me. They used the high definition scanner to check positions of everything prior to the CVS and found that the placenta is still a bit too close to the bowel so they'd rather wait a few more days in the hope the bowel is moved well out of the way (don't want to risk perforation!). Plus as I have only been off aspirin since last Thurs (which I'm on due to high risk of pre-eclampsia) they're a bit concerned about bleeding. Feel emotionally drained already, hardly slept last night and the disappointment that they couldn't do it today was pretty tough. Plus they printed out more pictures from the scan which I really can't deal with right now (they are hidden now by DH). So I'm back down again on Thursday, and will have to go alone as DH can't take any more time off work, and will have to travel via bus as won't be allowed to drive myself home apparently. Not helped too by hospital being 1.5 hours from home by car, so extends the trip a lot.

It is such a rollercoaster, I feel so exhausted already. The consultant warned me too that Thursday the bowel may still not have moved adequately so provisionally we may have to come back again the following Tues. Argh! Just want to close my eyes and sleep for a week.

Going to attempt to bury myself in work now, but my heart is not really in it.

BB sending much love to you xx

treedelivery · 18/05/2009 14:05

Oh no . Thats hard for you am very sorry.

justaboutspringtime · 18/05/2009 14:53

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treedelivery · 18/05/2009 14:57

Hurrah justa. I am really please for you. It is good news, I hope you are feeling reassured.

Still for jjf though. Frustrating and knackering for you. Is a taxi an option?

JumpingJellyfish · 18/05/2009 15:21

So glad all is well Justabout

DH has suggested a taxi, but it would cost £50, and I just don't think I could cope making small talk to a stranger for 1.25hrs or more. I can get a train/bus combination home and in a way I like the anonymity of public transport...if I spend it in tears then so be it. Will take the trusty iPod to while away the journey. It is hard being so far from the hospital because I feel it is too much to ask of people to come with me, as it's such a long trip. Plus I am already calling in a lot of favours for babysitting the DCs. I really only want DH- not sure I could cope with anyone else there. Think it will be incredibly hard if we have to go through this all yet again the following Tues so hoping desperately it'll work out on Thurs.

busierbee · 18/05/2009 17:14

Dearest JJF
Golly what a trial for you my dear. I remember feeling exactly that before my last CVS- in fact the whole reason I started my thread in first place was the overwhelming weariness and anxiety I felt in the build up so can only imagine your state of mind.
If only could give you a magic pill and you could wake up with it all over.
There is only little distractions and immersing self in cleaning, or work or children.
So ironic that at the very time when one seeks oblivion, one cannot sleep. So the unconscious plays tricks and acts out all the fears one tries so hard to disguise in the daylight hours.
But there are right to be cautious are they not re your own health?
I too could not look at the scan pictures - I do not even know what happened to mine as LM whipped them off me.
I must say work has helped today for me as was able to immerse self in it.
Have been sent the email address of woman at UCH that I need to contact re PGD but not even sure they will let me as have three children from my first marriage - and am forty one.
So try and get through minute by minute I guess and on a good day, hour by hour. Wish hubby could be with you on Thursday - too hard. Have to go on auto pilot somehow and the privacy may be better as you say than some inane conversation. I somehow shut self down to a very small tiny thing and just shut self off from every stimulus and somehow somehow get through it all.
Well done to you - another day over and another day nearer.
Phew
BB xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

OP posts:
bezzyk · 18/05/2009 18:40

I'm so sorry that you've been delayed JJF, I can't imagine how disappointed you must be. I suppose you feel like you went through all of the worry last night for nothing, you don't mind so much if you know it'll be over the next day, but to now have to have another restless night, that's not nice.

The stage you're at now, is what really scares me, I'm kind of ok now, don't cry much and feel I'm on the road to recovery, however, if I fall pregnant again, I just KNOW that I'm going to be a wreck for those first 13 weeks or so until I get those CVS results. I suspect that's when I'll be needing ARC, or you guys....

That's great news for you though Justa, I remember the feeling so well when you see that little heart beat, like a massive weight has been lifted from you. Were they able to date you?

I am now the honorary, 'best wife in the world' DH had an early flight this morning and he left while I was still asleep. Then I get a phone call at 5.30 saying 'you need to come to the airport NOW and bring my passport'......so I had to jump out of bed and get DD out of bed and race through to drop it off to him. Needless to say I wasn't thrilled. We made it with 5 mins to spare. Needless to say I'm buggered!

Love to everyone, how you feeling BB?

treedelivery · 18/05/2009 19:39

Big heart to BB

And bezzyk - thank you for saying you still cry, on your road to recovery.

Life goes on and the pain goes with it. Thread is always here for foggy days.

There might be other days, of panic, and anxiety, and sheer overstimulation. Stormy days maybe? Thread here for those days too.

Much love xxx

lindso · 18/05/2009 20:32

jjf sorry you've had a tough day, setbacks like this are hideous when you have to build yourself up for it all over again. hope the next couple of days go quickly and all is well on thursday.

justabout - good news! sending good vibes.

JumpingJellyfish · 19/05/2009 11:33

Thank you so much for all the kind words. I am feeling a bit more "stable" today... But I have a couple of questions for all of you who've had CVS tests... Did you have to rest for long afterwards? I was told to take it easy for first 24-48 hours, but wondered how much it really affected you? I don't have childcare on Friday and with 2 DCs to run after a bit worried in case the CVS definitely goes ahead on Thurs. A friend has offered to come round with her kids to help entertain mine, bless her, but I don't want her having to do too much. DH has suggested if I really have to rest on Friday we could pretend I have a tummy bug and ask his Mum to come up for the day, but I'd rather not have to unless really necessary.

Thanks xx

treedelivery · 19/05/2009 11:57

Hello Jumping,

Really glad you are feeling on a more even keel today. I don't know the answer to that, but some one will. I'd take the offer of help though - you'd do it wouldn't you. It's not such a big ask, it's a play date really.

Hello to all the ladies at work and at home, and big waves to our BB.

Katerina100 · 19/05/2009 13:29

Hi ladies

I'm new here and have been reading through this huge thread. I started reading it yesterday but I'm at work and can only look occasionally. I came across this part of Mumsnet by accident - via Google - as I didn't realise it existed. I'm not a mum yet, unfortunately, so hadn't been on Mumsnet before....

I just wanted to say how incredibly helpful I'm finding it just reading about other people's experiences. Like everyone else has been saying, I'm really struggling to talk to friends about what's happened to us. And I just can't imagine how anyone could possibly understand this without having been through it - I know I couldn't have a month ago. I don't want well-intentioned sympathy from people who don't understand. So other than my husband, who is being totally brilliant, I haven't really talked to anyone at all.

Anyway, my story is that nearly two weeks ago my husband and I chose to terminate our first pregnancy after a CVS confirmed that the baby had Down's. The initial scan came up with a neuchal reading of 4.6mm, which meant nothing to us as this was our first scan and we were blissfully ignorant of all the numbers. We had actually decided before the scan that we didn?t want to get given the risk level as we didn?t want to know and be scared throughout the pregnancy. Plus, I?m ?only? 33, and so we didn?t think that we were particularly high risk. But we did give permission for them to look for major anomalies. Looking back, we weren?t clear enough about exactly we wanted, because everything was so new to us. But we were seen at one of the big teaching hospitals in London, and things sort of snowballed ? during the initial scan, even though we requested not to be given the number, as soon as the lady saw the baby?s neck, she said ?ooh, I can tell that?s really big even without measuring?, and from then on we had a succession of doctors coming in to look and eventually one of them told us our risk was 1:2, as bad as it can get. They then produced a professor of fetal cardiology, who spent ages looking at the heart using a more sensitive scanner, and she said there was some evidence of valve leakage, even though at this stage it was too early to tell the details. This lady also said to us that with a risk of 1:2, we really did need to find out either way if the baby did have Downs, regardless of our ultimate decision. So we went ahead with the CVS, finally leaving the hospital at 3pm having arrived at 9am?

The result came back positive, as we kind of expected (we had the feeling when they gave us the 1:2 number that they were pretty certain about the outcome and would have given us an even worse number if one existed). We actually had a weekend away already booked, so we went away and walked endlessly, trying to reach a decision. Unlike lots of people, we really didn?t know in advance what we would do (I found a statistic that 92% of people who get a positive result for Down?s choose to terminate, and our midwife said that most of her ?ladies? already knew what they?d do before they had the test done). We spoke to the Down?s Association, and to ARC, both of whom were brilliant. But it was so hard. I?d always felt that I could never go through with a termination, whatever the circumstances (I?m totally pro-choice, I just thought I could never do this myself). It really brought home how you just can?t tell what you?d do in difficult situations in advance ? I?m quite a black and white person and this has shown me that I?m too quick to judge other people in other circumstances.

Eventually we seemed to reach a decision that we had to terminate, and it happened 13 days ago, on a Wednesday when I was exactly 14 weeks pregnant. But I?m still really struggling to come to terms with it. The hardest thing is that we?ll never know whether we made the right decision ? never being able to know the degree of health difficulties and the level of learning disability that our baby had is just so hard, so we don?t know if we made the best/kindest decision. I?m also struggling to deal with the fact that I don?t know myself as well as I thought I did ? I?m still kind of shocked that I could actually go through with it. And while I don?t necessarily regret our decision, I still feel this terrible guilt and sadness about killing our baby. I was ?lucky? in that I could still have a surgical procedure rather than having to deliver the baby, particularly never having been through labour before. But it seems so strange that I went to sleep pregnant and woke up not.

And so now I?m just dealing with everything slowly but surely. I went back to work 3 days after the procedure, and it helps distract me during the day. But I get home in the evening and I?m totally exhausted ? the effort of being ?upbeat? all day at work, and not sleeping very well, I guess. And then I start crying, and my poor husband is getting worried that I?m not coping very well. We went to see friends for the first time at the weekend ? they were the only ones who knew everything, and they were brilliant. But we?re out for dinner on Friday with two other couples ? one couple are expecting their first baby this summer, and I know it will be really hard. I should be 16 weeks pregnant by the time we see them, and I should have a little bump. I?m really happy for everyone that?s pregnant, but it just makes me think of what we?ve lost. I?m also so jealous of everyone that hasn?t had to go through this. I can?t imagine I?ll ever have an enjoyable pregnancy now ? that whole sense of innocence is gone. We think we want to start trying again quite soon (I feel so empty now, even though I?ve never been broody) but I can?t imagine how we?ll cope if we?re lucky enough to get pregnant again.

I could keep on typing forever but I must stop. Sorry for this epic post and thanks for listening.
Kate xx

bezzyk · 19/05/2009 13:32

Hi JJF

I had a CVS done, and I hate to admit it, I took it VERY easy for first couple of days. Was advised not to lift anything heavy (incl toddlers) for 48 hours. For first 24 hours i was pretty sore and didn't couldn't anyway, not sure if I was being over cautious though.

I'd strongly advise you get some help, I came out of the procedure exhausted, not just physically, but emotionally too.

Tummy bug is a perfect excuse

See what the other ladies say, I may have been a drama queen!

Good luck
B x

justaboutspringtime · 19/05/2009 13:54

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treedelivery · 19/05/2009 13:54

Welcome Katerina100

I have read your story, though I can't give you as much time now as you need, I can say welcome to our thread and thank you for posting and sharing your story with us.

Every story will be of comfort to a woman out there, and every experience may enlighten others on their own journey of choices.

It sounds like you and your husband went to lengths to arm yourselves with knowledge, to base your decision on as many facts and opinions as you could get at the time. I think you should take strength from that.

I think that it is very very very early days, and that crying is normal. Maybe your dh coul deven read this thread or a few posts to see his wfe is not going crazy before his eyes - but dealing with loss and all that entails.

I hope the thread helps you a little, or a lot. You will absolutely have lots to give the thread, which we are finding [I think, I speak for all the posters here] helps ourselves too.

All compassion to you.

Katerina100 · 19/05/2009 15:58

Thank you both for your replies. It?s so nice to be able to ?talk? about this. I?m better at explaining things in writing than face-to-face at the best of times, and particularly at the moment it?s the only way I can manage it?.

There?s a big part of me that wishes we?d been more resolute at the very beginning in saying we didn?t want to know the risk level, and so not to have been faced with making this horrible decision. While I don?t regret our ultimate choice, I?m angry that we were given the ability to make it, if that makes sense. Obviously, giving birth to a child with Down?s would be a huge shock if you didn?t know in advance and completely life altering. But at least we wouldn?t have had to make this choice and then have to live with it. And it would have been our child, and we would have loved it. I?m aware that this sounds like I?m trying to abdicate responsibility for our decision, which I probably am. And I know that the whole point of the tests is to give people choice, and that lots of people here won?t agree with me, and I really really don?t want to give offence to anyone who feels differently. I think it?s all still so painful that I can?t think straight and I?m just raging against everything. I'm sorry.

It?s terribly early days, but it?s also made us question what we?d do in any future pregnancy. At the moment, we both think that faced with a second Down?s diagnosis we wouldn?t be able to live with ourselves if we made the same choice again and, instead, we?d see it as fate and continue with the pregnancy. It?s not like we have any other children that would be affected to consider. But in that case, why did we terminate this one? It?s all so hard and there are no right answers.

JumpingJellyfish: good luck with your CVS on Thursday, I hope they are able to go ahead this time. I don?t have kids so I?m not sure whether my experience is very helpful from a practical perspective, but after I had mine I was more emotionally than physically shattered. I was a bit sore for a day or two, but nothing unbearable physically. And we had to go see my SIL and her kids who were in the UK for a rare visit from abroad for the weekend ? so lots of picking up of small children for big cuddles. Mind you, I?d second the advice of the others ? if you have the offer of help, then definitely take it.

I?m going to lurk now for a bit as I don?t want to take over the thread. But I can?t say too many times how reassuring it is just to know that this place exists.

Kate xx

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