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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Auriol Grey being jailed is not appropriate.

1000 replies

Finnyfanjango · 03/03/2023 11:47

I’m interested to hear the thoughts and reactions of others as to me given her cognitive issues and the fact she is partially blind, it just seems like such a sad accident, I can’t see why she was jailed.
I think what she did was awful, but it surely just highlights the lack of appropriate social care she clearly needed?

OP posts:
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JudgeJ · 03/03/2023 13:50

MammaFifi · 03/03/2023 13:47

She definitely should be in prison. It's a treacherous road and the pavement is always shared by pedestrians and cyclists. Her vile actions killed an elderly lady.

Rubbish, the cyclist should have been on the road, the pedestrian had no choice of where to be, the cyclist did.

FloydPepper · 03/03/2023 13:50

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Yet a jury convicted her. I presume you’ve seen more evidence than they have in order to come to your conclusion

Everyonesinvited · 03/03/2023 13:50

Moonicorn · 03/03/2023 13:47

Regret doesn’t affect whether you’re guilty or not, although it rubs salt in the wounds when they appear not to give a damn. Equally she seemed to expect the cyclist to consider her, why can’t she consider other people?

I was responding to someone who referenced a lack of regret.

No way would I cycle down that walk way. The cyclist is not at particular risk unless this particular tragedy plays out but the presence of bikes was putting pedestrians at risk - I agree with the defendant there. Not that she should have responded in the way she did.

creekingmillenial · 03/03/2023 13:51

creekingmillenial · 03/03/2023 13:49

I do think it was manslaughter but I don’t think she should go to jail because
a) it’s not at all clear that cyclists were supposed to be there
b) being partially sighted and physically disabled means she was less able to just move out of the way. The pavement wasn’t really wide and I think there is a reasonable argument that actually it was partially caused by the cyclist/unsafe layout by local authority.
c) she didn’t “push her into the road”

However it wasn’t purely an accident as she shouted aggressively at her.

I have a disabled relative and can imagine them being afraid and shouting so I am a little biased but I also cycle regularly. More fault should be being put on the local authority.

Just to add, this means I think it’s right she was convicted but I think her sentence should have been non custodial.

Emotionalsupportviper · 03/03/2023 13:51

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 13:46

I can't help thinking that - regardless of the defendant's actions - this was an accident waiting to happen on that stretch of pavement. It looks too narrow to be shared by pedestrians and cyclists. I doubt someone in a wheelchair or pushing a pram could get past a cyclist.

I agree - the TV footage of a cyclist whizzing past the reporter showed how little room to manoeuvre there really is.

Everyonesinvited · 03/03/2023 13:51

Cornchip · 03/03/2023 12:50

She left the scene and went shopping.

She deserves to be in prison.

Shopping is not a crime.

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 13:51

think if she was a man people wouldn’t be so surprised by her sentence.

If she was an able bodied man perhaps she wouldn't have even been caught, like the man who pushed a woman in front of a bus on Putney Bridge.

OneTC · 03/03/2023 13:52

I don't think anyone should be able to cause the death of another person and escape without some consequence. Never imagined that would be a controversial view on Mumsnet which is pretty Law and Order on the whole

Moonicorn · 03/03/2023 13:52

Even if the cyclist should have been on the road - let’s say the path was VERY clearly marked as pedestrian only - should pedestrians be able to do things that force the bike onto the road at a dangerous time, resulting in the cyclist’s death? Whether or not Celia should’ve been on the pavement is a separate question to whether what this woman did was an offence.

Everyonesinvited · 03/03/2023 13:52

namitynamechange · 03/03/2023 12:51

I know this isn't really the issue. But if councils were made to provide safe spaces for cyclists and pedestrians there would be less accidents overall. Apparently everyone that knows the area knows how dangerous that bit is. Even a simple metal barrier between the pavement and the road would have meant 2 women going about their lives as normal right now instead of one dead, and one in prison.

That's the real issue.

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 13:53

OneTC · 03/03/2023 13:52

I don't think anyone should be able to cause the death of another person and escape without some consequence. Never imagined that would be a controversial view on Mumsnet which is pretty Law and Order on the whole

The car driver has escaped without consequence. Do you think she should have been convicted of something as well?

Everyonesinvited · 03/03/2023 13:53

Chowtime · 03/03/2023 12:51

The sentence is appropriate. Someone died prematurely as a direct result of her actions and the courts really really don't like it when someone dies because of that.

The point of prison is twofold. It's to punish the offender for what they have done and make them think about it (I don't think this lady actually showed any remorse, just went and did her shopping :) ) and it's to keep society safe from offenders like her. We need to be protected from people who cause little old ladies to fall into the road and die! we're just not safe otherwise if people like her are walking around.

We won't be safe while pedestrians are expected to share walking space with cyclists.

Mouldyfoodhelp · 03/03/2023 13:53

Everyonesinvited · 03/03/2023 13:51

Shopping is not a crime.

No but thankfully causing someone's death is. The ignoring it is just the unbelievably sour cherry on top

FloydPepper · 03/03/2023 13:55

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 13:53

The car driver has escaped without consequence. Do you think she should have been convicted of something as well?

The car driver did absolutely nothing wrong, bears no responsibility for any of this and must feel awful. They deserve nothing but sympathy!

Redebs · 03/03/2023 13:55

OneTC · 03/03/2023 13:48

If your reaction to minor threat is to attack someone you belong in jail, or more appropriate custody

Having a bike coming at you isn't a minor threat. A collision or fall is serious.

Clymene · 03/03/2023 13:56

The judge was clear in his sentencing:

“ You resented the presence of an oncoming cyclist
“You are territorial about the pavement, and that is not explained by your disability
“This was a shared path for cyclists and pedestrians, I am sure you knew cyclists used the path, and were not taken by surprise.”

I assume he had all the facts. Grey could see the car approaching and waved her arm and hurled abuse at an elderly woman so she fell into the path of that oncoming car. And then she went shopping.

Elliania · 03/03/2023 13:57

The video that is being shown in the media is not the full video. The investigating officer said this "Det Sgt Dollard, who interviewed Grey, told BBC Radio Cambridgeshire: "I'll always remember the morning after it occurred obtaining the CCTV and watching it in its entirety.

"In all honesty it's horrific and not appropriate for wider release to the public, but, if it were, then I think a lot of the arguments in relation to appropriate responses would be null and void."" So it does sound like there might be more that the jusry have been privy to that we have not.

The full article is here: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64835197

I will also say that having seen the portion of the video that has been released, the cyclist is not going at any great speed and the pedestrian had plenty of room to move closer to the fence away from the road if she was concerned about being hit. It certainly appears that the pedestrian is acting out of anger/annoyance rather than fear.

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 13:58

FloydPepper · 03/03/2023 13:55

The car driver did absolutely nothing wrong, bears no responsibility for any of this and must feel awful. They deserve nothing but sympathy!

You conveniently left out the post I quoted @FloydPepper I'm not suggesting they should be convicted of anything. As a driver if someone falls into your path sometimes you can't stop, even if you are going at an appropriate speed for the road.

However, @OneTC made the comment that I don't think anyone should be able to cause the death of another person and escape without some consequence. Never imagined that would be a controversial view on Mumsnet which is pretty Law and Order on the whole.

I was showing there are clearly circumstances, even within this individual case, where someone causes someone else's death and is not convicted of a crime.

OneTC · 03/03/2023 14:00

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 13:53

The car driver has escaped without consequence. Do you think she should have been convicted of something as well?

No because they were just driving along. Only one person here acted aggressively and it was that aggression that resulted in death. It's not a tricky concept really

BishopRock · 03/03/2023 14:00

GrasstrackGirl · 03/03/2023 12:10

You do realise what manslaughter is?

IMHO three years isn't long enough.

I agree.

She behaved aggressively. She admitted to "light contact". She fucked off as a woman lay dying in the road.

In the CCTV she veers closer to the cyclist.

The pavement at that point seems to have been a shared path - it was 2.4 metres wide.

It's a shame the CCTV doesn't cover the next second or two because it could be argued she pushed the cyclist into the road, and a bit more CCTV would either prove or disprove that.

OneTC · 03/03/2023 14:01

Redebs · 03/03/2023 13:55

Having a bike coming at you isn't a minor threat. A collision or fall is serious.

It happens every day thousands of times everywhere with no one dying.

Unlike forcing someone into traffic

AlwaysGinPlease · 03/03/2023 14:01

Whiteminnowfish · 03/03/2023 12:01

Is this the lady who pushed the cyclist onto the road and cyclist died?

And then she left her dying to go shopping. She should be jailed for the rest of her life. She admitted she made contact with her. She's evil. I've been shocked by the victim blaming in other posts... oh look.

BishopRock · 03/03/2023 14:02

"In all honesty it's horrific and not appropriate for wider release to the public, but, if it were, then I think a lot of the arguments in relation to appropriate responses would be null and void."

Ah - there was more CCTV then that we haven't seen.

Catspyjamas17 · 03/03/2023 14:03

OneTC · 03/03/2023 14:00

No because they were just driving along. Only one person here acted aggressively and it was that aggression that resulted in death. It's not a tricky concept really

If it's not a tricky concept, please don't make stupid and incorrect blanket statements saying the exact opposite.

OneTC · 03/03/2023 14:03

The driver was the very unfortunate instrument of AGs crime, not the cause.

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