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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think Auriol Grey being jailed is not appropriate.

1000 replies

Finnyfanjango · 03/03/2023 11:47

I’m interested to hear the thoughts and reactions of others as to me given her cognitive issues and the fact she is partially blind, it just seems like such a sad accident, I can’t see why she was jailed.
I think what she did was awful, but it surely just highlights the lack of appropriate social care she clearly needed?

OP posts:
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13
Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 21:52

MolesEdgeworth · 05/03/2023 21:41

More lies.

I have consistently said that the video looks like a push but is inconclusive.

I don’t think any body, other than you, has claimed that the video shows the cyclist was trying to force AG off the path or was ‘getting in AG’s face’.

And the reason nobody else has said that is because it is plainly and obviously categorically untrue.

You should be absolutely ashamed of yourself.

Calm down.

I wouldn't have put it like that but I would have agreed that Celia should have slowed right down because there clearly isn't room to pass. She shouldn't have been approaching head on in the way that she was - I suspect she didn't react to the obstacle AG posed quickly enough. Of course AG made matters much, much worse but the kind of cycling that Celia was doing could have ended up with a pedestrian on the road so I recognise AG's concern.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/03/2023 21:55

Even if that wasn’t a cycle path, and Celia should not have been cycling there, did she deserve to die for it?

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 21:56

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 21:48

The video does look as if there wouldn't be room for Celia to pass AG without AG being forced to jump to one side. Obviously she doesn't dream of trying to step to one side and should have done. But I do question why Celia was approaching her head on. When on a bike you have the power to hurt pedestrians and the onus is on the cyclist to avoid collisions with pedestrians.

If I was riding a bike, I certainly wouldn't be approaching a pedestrian in the manner that Celia was approaching AG. I would slow down and be ready to pause/walk past if there were any question about room on the pavement, if only to protect myself from future injury claims. It is also much more likely that the pedestrian is the one forced onto the road and I would not have approached AG without room to pass in case it ended up with her somehow on that busy road.

I wouldn't dream of criticising Celia if a disabled, childlike woman was not condemned to three years in prison over the tragedy. Difficult questions need to be asked.

Obviously she doesn't dream of trying to step to one side and should have done.

She has Cerebral Palsy which causes problems with her legs. Look at the way she walks.

ReneBumsWombats · 05/03/2023 21:57

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 21:41

I'm saying she wasn't obeying the Highway Code with the result that a disabled person with poor eyesight and reduced mobility would have been forced to make adjustments to allow her past. She then attempted to pass on the wrong side and seemingly misjudged the width.

Are you saying that the deceased woman was trying to force Grey off the pavement?

Because that's sure what "Shouting at a cyclist who's acting illegally, failing to give way appropriately and trying to force you off the pavement..." sounds like to me.

You think Celia was trying to force Grey into the road?

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 21:58

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/03/2023 21:55

Even if that wasn’t a cycle path, and Celia should not have been cycling there, did she deserve to die for it?

Obviously not.

Does anyone deserve to die just for breaking a minor traffic law.

It wasn't a killing deliberately carried out in 'punishment' though. I'm sure nobody thinks she deserved to die.

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 21:59

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 21:56

Obviously she doesn't dream of trying to step to one side and should have done.

She has Cerebral Palsy which causes problems with her legs. Look at the way she walks.

Yes I know she I think she was in a difficult position. But she should have made some effort to step aside to avoid a collision and maximise the chances of Celia squeezing around her.

I may be wrong but the speed that Celia approaches seems to suggest she either didn't react in time to AG's presence or assumed she would move. I'm not saying AG is in the right but I have some sympathy for her feeling stressed.

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 21:59

and not she

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 21:59

ReneBumsWombats · 05/03/2023 21:57

Are you saying that the deceased woman was trying to force Grey off the pavement?

Because that's sure what "Shouting at a cyclist who's acting illegally, failing to give way appropriately and trying to force you off the pavement..." sounds like to me.

You think Celia was trying to force Grey into the road?

I think I've already answered that.

MolesEdgeworth · 05/03/2023 22:00

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 21:48

The video does look as if there wouldn't be room for Celia to pass AG without AG being forced to jump to one side. Obviously she doesn't dream of trying to step to one side and should have done. But I do question why Celia was approaching her head on. When on a bike you have the power to hurt pedestrians and the onus is on the cyclist to avoid collisions with pedestrians.

If I was riding a bike, I certainly wouldn't be approaching a pedestrian in the manner that Celia was approaching AG. I would slow down and be ready to pause/walk past if there were any question about room on the pavement, if only to protect myself from future injury claims. It is also much more likely that the pedestrian is the one forced onto the road and I would not have approached AG without room to pass in case it ended up with her somehow on that busy road.

I wouldn't dream of criticising Celia if a disabled, childlike woman was not condemned to three years in prison over the tragedy. Difficult questions need to be asked.

There was plainly enough room for both. At the moment AG raised her arm towards the cyclist, she was already mostly past AG.

To think Auriol Grey being jailed is not appropriate.
To think Auriol Grey being jailed is not appropriate.
Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 22:00

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/03/2023 21:55

Even if that wasn’t a cycle path, and Celia should not have been cycling there, did she deserve to die for it?

What a stupid question. No one is suggesting AG handed down a death sentence like judge, jury and executioner.

ReneBumsWombats · 05/03/2023 22:02

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 21:59

I think I've already answered that.

No, I don't think so. Let's just keep it simple. Do you think Celia was trying to force Grey off the pavement? Yes or no?

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/03/2023 22:02

Not a stupid question given that some people seem to think AG was justified in what she did, because Celia shouldn’t have been on the pavement.

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 22:04

MolesEdgeworth · 05/03/2023 22:00

There was plainly enough room for both. At the moment AG raised her arm towards the cyclist, she was already mostly past AG.

Those photos raise more questions than answers. Had Celia just ridden up that dropped kerb, placing her in the middle of the pavement with the onus on her to get out of AG's path promptly? If that's the case, she should have paused as that's too tight.

We don't know how wobbly a cyclist she was - she didn't look particularly nimble or balanced from what I saw and some cyclists seem to sway, needing much more space than others. This would be more likely to be true if she was just building up speed and veering right on a slight incline.

It looks like a perfect storm with the onus on the council to prevent pedestrians and cyclists becoming entangled.

ItWillWash · 05/03/2023 22:05

I love how posters who have never visited the area in question and only seen a snippet of a piece of evidence submitted in court can categorically state it was not shared cycle path when even the police and local council are unable to.

Y'all should apply for jobs with Scotland Yard.

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 22:05

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 05/03/2023 22:02

Not a stupid question given that some people seem to think AG was justified in what she did, because Celia shouldn’t have been on the pavement.

Strawman.

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 22:06

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TomPinch · 05/03/2023 22:06

Lucky then, that we have courts to take a good look at the evidence.

I wish some people here would remember that before posting worthless speculations about what actually happened.

BadNomad · 05/03/2023 22:07

In fact, if you look at the road on Google street view (even for years before the incident, before someone argues), you can see signs dotted up and down both sides showing it is a shared path and at no point is there a sign that says the shared path has ended.

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 22:08

ItWillWash · 05/03/2023 22:05

I love how posters who have never visited the area in question and only seen a snippet of a piece of evidence submitted in court can categorically state it was not shared cycle path when even the police and local council are unable to.

Y'all should apply for jobs with Scotland Yard.

There were no signs indicating a shared path. The council map has the path on the other pavement. Lots of signs/markings are visible on the other pavement indicating a shared path. The council and police don't even claim it was a shared path.

AlwaysGinPlease · 05/03/2023 22:09

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Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 22:10

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I wouldn't refer to a deceased woman as acting like a twat - it's not respectful. I do agree that your description of what Celia should have done may well be correct. We have no way of knowing why she did it didn't do it though. She may have been concentrating too hard on the bike, not been able to hear AG's shouts over the traffic sound (common with age) - who knows. She was probably doing the best she could and the fault lies with the council for inadequate provision.

Everyonesinvited · 05/03/2023 22:10

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That is very rude and disabilist. Reported.

BrigitteBond · 05/03/2023 22:11

BadNomad · 05/03/2023 22:07

In fact, if you look at the road on Google street view (even for years before the incident, before someone argues), you can see signs dotted up and down both sides showing it is a shared path and at no point is there a sign that says the shared path has ended.

No you can't. The signs are all on the other side, apart from one 'repeater' sign over quarter of a mile away indicating a link between two well-signposted routes which cross the road at a right-angle.

ShakespearesBlister · 05/03/2023 22:12

There also seems to be CCTV the other side of the road which would have got a much better view of the incident than the snippet made public. Perhaps that's how the authorities had more evidence of what happened than the public are aware of.

To think Auriol Grey being jailed is not appropriate.
FingerPuppet · 05/03/2023 22:12

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