To think Auriol Grey being jailed is not appropriate.

There’s more in the press today by a Neighbour of Ms Grey who’s said by them to be a not very nice person to have has a neighbour and who could frequently be heard having expletive laden shouting matches when on the telephone.

That is the clearest one I’ve seen and definitely looks like a push.

@nolongersurprised sorry, I can see that! I think my tone is a bit defensive after a three of these threads I was erring on the side of caution given the prevalence of undiagnosed adults, but entirely take your point re testing at this stage.

It must be a fascinating field to work in, and equally as infuriating when you read about cases like this and others when the automatic assumption is some sort of LD, when, in fact, some people are just entirely vile people. It does no favours to anyone with LDs and ND because it just strengthens the idea that naughty/poor behaviour = disorder. I thought we were trying to decouple that premise!

Perhaps slightly more controversially, I also don't think that the push for 'intelligence is everything, you must go to uni and strive for academic excellence' etc has helped matters. It's like we need an excuse not to be an intellectual high achiever, rather than acknowledging that, as you say, statistically half of the population are of below average intelligence and that's just life. Work hard, absolutely, but there are other skills and traits which are just as important.

@ShakespearesBlister no apologies needed or letting anyone have anything! I said it earlier, but it really is like a magic picture. You don't always notice it on the first or second try but when you clock it, it really is incredibly obvious and you wonder how you (and everyone else) didn't see it before. Thank you for sharing the clearer video.

It must be a fascinating field to work in, and equally as infuriating when you read about cases like this and others when the automatic assumption is some sort of LD, when, in fact, some people are just entirely vile people

I think what’s driving me crazy (and it’s getting late here in Australia) is the conflation between “cognitive issues” and having an intellectual disability.

Loads of people have relative weaknesses in their cognitive profiles, some people may have terrible working memories and processing for example. I was always very academic but I have no spacial awareness, I can’t help the kids with 3D shapes in maths because I haven’t a clue. Schools are full of children who may have struggles in some areas of learning but not others.

None of this equates to a frank intellectual disability. It just means some people can find some things disproportionally hard 🤷‍♀️.

I don’t think it helps that, in the UK, learning difficulties (presumably specific learning disorders, like dyslexia) and learning disability (intellectual disability, FSIQ <70) sound so similar and seem to be sometimes used interchangeably.

A lot of people don't know there is a difference between "learning disability" and "learning difficulty", or realise autism is neither. I hate seeing people say "autism/LD" as if they are similar or interchangeable.

A relative of mine has quadriplegic CP. It does not affect her intellectual abilities in any way. In fact if anything she is super intelligent.

Yes, and reproducible studies show that about half of people with CP also have an intellectual disability

It encompasses a very wide range of impairments following a brain injury.

When it comes down to it, I think the confusion lies with the idea of blame. Can you or should you punish someone more harshly if they show no remorse, or is that punishing them for something they have no control over? Can they help being incapable of feeling remorse? Do we care whether they are capable of feeling something or not, or is the desire to punish them more severely for their inability to feel empathy and remorse driven by disgust at their abnormality? Is this abnormality a disability?

If you are a sociopath, can you understand the difference between right and wrong or, if not, can you at least understand that the society you live in has certain rules that it is possible for you to follow, even if you do not understand or agree with them; and that you will be punished if you break them? Can you understand that if you think someone else is breaking a rule, this does not exempt you from punishment or blame if you act to stop them from breaking the rule they are breaking and then get caught for your own rule breaking? Can you expect a sociopath ever to truly understand that they should not break the rules, rather than try to ensure they are not caught breaking the rules?

Is Ariol Grey a sociopath? She certainly seems to ignore the eights and feelings of others and to have a very self-centred idea of right and wrong.

It encompasses a very wide range of impairments following a brain injury

Sorry - that’s confusing. By definition it’s a disorder of movement but there’s great variability with regard to the severity. It could mean just a mild hemiplegia with nearly full day-to-day functioning or a person with no functioning use of their limbs as well as cortical blindness, feeding difficulties and a severe intellectual disability.

it depends on the location and the extent of the original brain injury.

I've watched the video three or four times and you can't see her push her it's out of shot?

Pity for what?! She doesn’t have pity for anyone, not even the woman she caused to die.

It’s sad she has cerebral palsy, of course it is. But it doesn’t excuse being nasty and vile does it.

Pity for leading a sad and lonely life? For carrying around a lot of anger and sadness?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not condoning her actions in any way, but I can see that she is a person who could do with some help in life.

Zoom in and focus on the moment they pass eachother. You can see her push the shoulder of the cyclist quite hard causing her to fall. If you still can't see it, remember that this isn't the video which was played in court. The police have the full video which is not edited and is not out of shot. None of us have seen that video.

Watch her left arm and weight transfer here - www.dailymotion.com/video/x8iqepl

I sympathise with most people who commit crimes and end up in trouble. We're all a product of our environment and some manage it better than others.

I don't mean I sit about welling up about how awful things are or anything I just see people being happy about other people's incarceration often to be a bit vindictive.

Brigitte has also said repeatedly she agrees with the conviction but only offers context from an ND perspective, everyone here is commenting based on their own experiences and outlooks. I don't see that she's saying the woman deserves to be forgiven.

I also think 3 years is excessive, the judge probably refused her bail because he knows it's going to be the only time she spends inside, it will appeal to a suspended sentence I reckon

You can definitely see the push in that video.

@GrasstrackGirl agreed, very clearly. She 100% pushed her into the road.

The mainstream media is hellbent on vindicating this woman, whose jury heard all the evidence and who returned a verdict of manslaughter.

I wonder why? Defending women is the very antithesis of their usual stance.

But this becomes clearer with the repeated suggestion that the cyclist shouldn't have been on the pavement anyway. This is irrelevant, even if this wasn't a shared path and even if she was breaking the law. Smacks very much of 'the cyclist was responsible for her own death' to me.

Which now explains their position. Victim blaming is the gutter press's stock-in-trade, especially when the victim happens to be a woman.

It's the aggressor who is vulnerable; the aggressor who is hard-done-by and the 'true' victim. DARVO at its finest.

Got it now.

I don't think so actually. It's just hard to believe waving your hands about at the wrong moment could get you into prison for a number of years. It's interesting because it's odd.

She pushed the cyclist into the road under the wheels of a car. Then left the scene to go shopping. That is not waving her arms about.

This woman is partially sighted, has cerebral palsy, significant cognitive issues, is unable to express emotions, and lives in a supported living flat for people with disabilites.
Those of you talking about her being "nasty, vile, a sociopath, a bitch" etc etc....there's something really really wrong with you all.

As for the ridiculous armchair detectives talking about her pushing the cyclist, you're ridiculous. There was no suggestion of such a thing in court, it didn't happen. Stop your nonsense.

If those things are true and what leads to the behaviour she showed, she is still a danger to society and should be in an institution where she is not left out in public alone as she is too dangerous.

You don't think that someone that is being questioned by police and later in court might minimise the 'light contact' that she herself admitted?

I don't think that's really surprising to anyone who's ever ridden a bike