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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Note from MNHQ: please note OP's post @ 19.08 on 22 Jan. The OP has admitted this is a reverse but we are leaving this thread up so they continue to receive advice. Inheritance money - AIBU to be p*ssed off?

546 replies

snoozum · 21/01/2023 02:38

What should my FIL do?
Background: my DH's parents divorced when he was a child, and years later FIL met and married his second wife. Second wife had two small children already, who called FIL "dad", although they were not his by blood. After 25 years of marriage, FIL and his second wife divorced fairly acrimoniously. The divorce courts ruled that FIL and ex-wife #2 must split their assets 50:50, with FIL allowed to keep anything that was his before the marriage. FIL worked extremely hard throughout the marriage and financially contributed massively more, with the ex-wife only working full-time for around 5-6 years. FIL was able to stay in the matrimonial home by paying ex-wife #2 50% of its value. Fast-forward 5 years and ex-wife #2 passed away without a will. The son of ex-wife #2 struggled with her death and so his children (his own wife had died a few years previously) went to live with FIL (their grandfather) temporarily. However, before any inheritance was claimed, the son also died. Ex-wife #2 died with most of the money she received in the divorce, in the bank. The ex-wife #2's daughter, who doesn't have children, has therefore inherited all of ex-wife #2's money, which in reality is pretty much all of my FIL's money. My FIL is now bringing up the grandchildren, therefore my DH and my FIL's thoughts are that the daughter should give all of this money back to FIL. However, she has only given back 50% of it. AIBU to think she should give FIL 100% of it, as it was his money to begin with?

OP posts:
HollaHolla · 21/01/2023 23:12

God. What a terrible situation for those poor orphaned kids; all in terrible circumstances. It’s great that your FIL has taken in his grandkids, and I’m sure that they are grateful; especially given their grandmother has already died, and their aunt is terminally ill.

Read that back. These kids have lost so many people close to them. That should be the focus here, but instead, it seems like you’re focussed on getting cash back to your FIL - which , to be frank, is not his.

Or are you just more concerned that you and your husband won’t get everything, and others might get a share? Remember, no one owes you anything. Further, if your FIL is that worried about having no cash for bringing up his grandkids, he’ll apply for the benefits, and not worry about what cash he seems to be hiding.

Peony26 · 21/01/2023 23:19

No it wasn’t his money it was their mothers money, makes no difference if he contributed more financially it’s what they agreed in the marriage, she will of contributed in other ways, and that was agreed in court when they divorced. I think she’s generous to have given back her brothers half as that should be hers.

snoozum · 21/01/2023 23:23

Ihavehadenoughalready · 21/01/2023 22:48

97% say you're being unreasonable.

Are you trying to convince us otherwise now? You don't really care what we think, then. We're not going to agree with you and in fact every new thing you add here either makes no difference to or makes your case worse.

Have a wonderful day.

Thank you all for your thoughts; you’ve been more help than you know.

OP posts:
edwinbear · 21/01/2023 23:23

I think she’s generous to have given back her brothers half as that should be hers

It was never hers, it always was, and still is, the grandchildren’s inheritance from their father. Which has been misappropriated.

edwinbear · 21/01/2023 23:25

you’ve been more help than you know

Right, so it’s a reverse basically.

WeepingSomnambulist · 22/01/2023 00:02

@snoozum
Are you the terminally ill aunt?
Reverses arent allowed on mumsnet anymore. Bloody stupid and pointless.

snoozum · 22/01/2023 00:11

Motelschmotel · 21/01/2023 20:34

Are you annoyed because your DH, the only “legitimate” child of your FIL, is getting none of this money?

That in fact your FIL’s stepdaughter and step-grandchildren are getting whatever is left over after his second wife has spent whatever she spent while she was alive, married to him and not?

What happened to the 50% your FIL kept upon divorce #2?

Your FIL left his first wife when your DH was quite young by the sound of it. 25 years - an entire generation - with his second wife (and not your DH), raising her children and his stepchildren while she fulfilled her side of the marital bargain in their marriage.

He was awful for ignoring your DH in all his financial planning. He just moved on without ensuring he had taken care of his first child. Your anger should be directed at him - nobody else.

FIL gave his first wife, my MIL, everything in his first divorce inc. the house, whilst taking on all of the debts. And he paid for all of DH’s school fees until DH had completed his A-levels, so FIL is not “grabby”.
My DH does say that he didn’t see his dad too often growing up because ex-wife #2 would insist everything had to be done as a “family” on the Sunday’s DH visited his dad. DH just wanted some time alone-time with his dad when he visited but ex-wife #2 wouldn’t allow it, so eventually he stopped visiting. DH was also often told by his mum (ex-wife #1), that the reason he couldn’t have certain things growing up was because his father (my FIL) was bringing up another man’s family. They still saw each other but just not massively often. FIL and DH (his son by blood) saw much more of each other a few years after DH had finished university, when FIL employed DH for two years after DH lost his job. They have been really close since.

OP posts:
Motelschmotel · 22/01/2023 01:22

I’m sorry for your DH. But your explanation, as soon as it started on childhood emotions and feelings, shows this is yet another tale of money/inheritances being about love, ultimately. it does sound as though your DH feels great resentment towards your FIL’s second family. But it was your FIL who brought them into your DH’s life. It was your FIL who didn’t tell his second wife that his son needs him, needs his alone time, especially now they’re not living together. It’s still all in your FIL. It’s easy to make a witch if the stepmother. But she would even be in the picture if it weren’t for your FIL.

Separately: this thread is highly identifiable. Makes me wonder.

Also, is this a reverse? Are you the step-daughter, checking to see if you deserve the criticism you’re getting after a seemingly voluntarily and magnanimous move on your part?

Tiredmamma8 · 22/01/2023 01:29

Inheritance breeds nastiness. It’s best to assume you won’t receive a penny from anyone then you don’t go around thinking people owe people money depending on who will die or who did die.

Bellalalala · 22/01/2023 06:01

snoozum · 22/01/2023 00:11

FIL gave his first wife, my MIL, everything in his first divorce inc. the house, whilst taking on all of the debts. And he paid for all of DH’s school fees until DH had completed his A-levels, so FIL is not “grabby”.
My DH does say that he didn’t see his dad too often growing up because ex-wife #2 would insist everything had to be done as a “family” on the Sunday’s DH visited his dad. DH just wanted some time alone-time with his dad when he visited but ex-wife #2 wouldn’t allow it, so eventually he stopped visiting. DH was also often told by his mum (ex-wife #1), that the reason he couldn’t have certain things growing up was because his father (my FIL) was bringing up another man’s family. They still saw each other but just not massively often. FIL and DH (his son by blood) saw much more of each other a few years after DH had finished university, when FIL employed DH for two years after DH lost his job. They have been really close since.

So FIL didn’t take a huge amount of assets into his second marriage? Because he gave it all to his first ex wife. And took on all the debts.

Yet fought, during his divorce for all his premarital assets. Which was actually just debt? Surely between marriages he didn’t pay off ‘all the debt’ and accumulate a lot of money?

So again, why would would he view it has his money when he accumulated during the marriage.

If your didn’t like his step mother or feels she stopped him seeing his dad or he did more for his step kids…..the problem is FIL. No one else and it has no impact at all on any of this.

There’s clearly a huge piece of information missing. I assume it been left out for your own benefit.

Buts what’s really clear is the your FIL can not understand the concept that this is not his money. He can not be trusted to to view the money he has received as the children’s money. He would rather ‘struggle to raise them’ and spend their money, than get the help he says he needs from the correct sources in case someone looks at his money too carefully. He isn’t struggling. He is just trying to get ‘his’ money back and using those kids to get it.

Doesn’t even sound like he is taking any steps to legally take on care of the children. I very much doubt he will access the help 2 children, who have suffered a lot of bereavement will need.

PizzaPizza56 · 22/01/2023 06:51

The children could have a claim against FIL if he spends their inheritance. How disgusting that he wants to spend their money AND thinks he's entitled to his stepdaughter inheritance when she's just lost her mum and brother.

Ps he could still use their inheritance to care for them if it's in a trust and they can keep what's left

NumberTheory · 22/01/2023 07:13

edwinbear · 21/01/2023 21:07

You need to read this OP. www.the-inheritance-experts.co.uk/what-happens-if-a-beneficiary-dies-first/

If the Beneficiary Dies After the Deceased

As long as the beneficiary [the step son] is alive for the time in the survivorship clause [28 days] their share of the deceased’s [Wife 2’s] Estate will pass to their [the son’s] Estate. This will then be distributed according to their Will or the Rules of Intestacy.

So, provided Wife 2’s son survived his mother by 28 days, in the absence of his Will saying otherwise, his share of his mother’s estate goes to his children - the grandchildren. Unless the son left a will leaving all his assets to his sister, it was never hers to give to your FIL - regardless of the fact he didn’t live long enough to claim his rightful inheritance. The grandchildren potentially have a claim of inheritance theft.

The ex-wife died intestate. There is no will, so there is no survivorship clause. So the ex-wife’s son does not need to have survived the 28 days. He just needs to have died after ex-wife for his estate to receive his 50% of the ex-wife’s estate.

Pipsquiggle · 22/01/2023 07:39

@snoozum

Your last post is completely irrelevant, how does any of that affect the divorce of exwife2, then HER death and distribution of HER assets to HER family?

I wish all the best to the orphaned GC, I hope they get everything and more that they deserve. I really hope they are getting all the support they need, including social services questioning whether FIL is the right person to be raising them.

Throughout this whole thread it has all been about the money for both you and FIL. Not once have you talked about the welfare or support needed for the GC. You are both deeply awful, unpleasant people in your obsession with getting money back that isn't yours.

I hope someone is looking out for the best interests of the GC - because it sounds that you and FIL DEFINITELY won't

bobbytorq · 22/01/2023 18:40

snoozum · 21/01/2023 22:38

The money was for bringing up the grand children. She has also tried to arrange for my FIL to foster the grandchildren as apparently he will be entitled to more money. However, he is not keen on his finances and personal affairs being subject to any investigation because he is a very private man

Private man.....or dodgy fucker.

snoozum · 22/01/2023 19:08

Ok, i think I’ve been busted; I’m the terminally ill aunt. I know I won’t win any fans but I genuinely didn’t know these were not allowed so I’m sorry for that. But this has helped me so much that I’m still glad I did it. I was so upset when I first got my dads text after sending him the money, that I cried for two days. I just wanted everything to be over, and for a few brief moments because it’s no fun suffocating to death either and my life is pretty much endless in-patient stays and pain, I considered ending everything.

The reason I did it this way was because I didn’t want to be identified. And it also helped me see my dads point of view. I get it; he lost 50% of what he views as his money pretty close to retirement age and now has two children to bring up. But I know for a fact that he wouldn’t have talked to his “real” son like this. He once told his niece by blood, who he sees once every 5 years or so, that she was the closest thing he had to a daughter. In front of me. I spent most of my childhood in tears, mostly due to him, yet I’m still to this day desperate to win his approval, I just can’t help it. We’ve been at his beck and call many times, like when he needs my husband to do things around his home, or if needs things buying etc. I even loaned him money, which I had to take a loan out for, to stop him losing the home. I never asked for this back over the years and when he did pay me back years later, I never charged him the loan interest (not that he asked). Which is why this episode has really hurt. But even my aunt, who I am really close to, made the comment that my husband shouldn’t inherit my dad’s money.

For those asking why the money didn’t go straight to the children, it was mostly naivety on my part. Having had to supply all the details and death certificates (I also had a sister who died around 20 years ago who didn’t have children), I thought I was doing the decent thing giving half to my dad to help raise the children. I also paid for both funerals/flowers for my mum and brother, and didn’t take any money for this. In the days before my brother died he sent me a text saying that he wanted “at least some of the money” to go to my dad. I think this is because as well as his children living with their granddad at the time of their dads death, my brother felt guilt over some financial dealings he’d previously had with my dad which lead to them not talking. I also thought this way there wouldn’t be any money lost in the legal fees for setting up trusts etc or any of the fuss if the kids want holidays / car lessons etc. etc. I’ve also been doing my best selling furniture and clothes etc belonging to their dad and my mum to give money directly to the children. For prospective, it’s not £100,000’s we’re talking about, and the GC love their granddad. He’s a far better grandparent than a father or husband. But I am concerned that I may not have followed the law, now.

My main reason for wanting to keep the half that I did is because I didn’t die quick enough such that my husband would receive a pay-out by my work when I die.
We rent so there’s no home, either. And my husband does not earn a high wage.
I was made to retire at 33 through Ill health, so the only thing I was allowed to do because I had a life expectancy of less than 12 months, was withdraw the small pension I had accrued. And whilst I was considered the bread winner, i had spent so long at university that I’d only had the pension for two years, so it wasn’t very much at all. So whilst I feel awful “cashing in” on my mums death, I do need this money. Even the bloody dog is unwell and needed a £4.5k operation, which is on a credit card.

OP posts:
BadNomad · 22/01/2023 19:17

@snoozum I'm sorry to hear about your illness. How do you plan to make things right with the children? You took their inheritance. You need to give it to them. You don't want to leave this for your husband to sort out.

Pipsquiggle · 22/01/2023 19:22

@snoozum sorry all this is happening to you.

Apologies for my responses but i thought you were a money grabbing CF.

You need to make sure the GC get the money that's theirs.

Bellalalala · 22/01/2023 19:23

You need to get some advice on what you did regarding the children’s money.

and regarding the fact that you took your fathers loan amount out of it.

but also, those kids need official support. Your father clearly thinks the money is his. It’s not. It’s the kids and the rest is yours. A man who sees his grandchildren’s inheritance as his, black mails his sick daughter and refuses to get the help the kids need because he is private can not be trusted.

Trez1510 · 22/01/2023 19:31

Echoing the advice already given i.e. you need to take some legal advice regarding your actions to date re the monies, and be prepared to rectify what needs to be rectified.

Also, as the obvious next-of-kin of the children, you should take advice on how to ensure there is formal oversight of the Guardianship of the children by their step-grandfather.

MademoiselleTrunchbull · 22/01/2023 19:33

I can see both sides. The money is legally hers so she is surprisingly generous giving it back. But only really in comparison to the majority of grabby selfish fuckers out there.

In reality, she's not lifted a finger or made any contribution to the earning of this money and it sounds like the ex wife herself didn't really contribute very much either and 'did well' from the divorce in financial terms relative to the effort she put.

LindorDoubleChoc · 22/01/2023 19:41

Surely this entire thread is all about a divorce settlement and not "inheritance money" as stated in OP. And the divorce was settled years ago. I'm quite interested in inheritance threads having been on the sharp end of unfair inheritance. But here it seems OP and OP's fil are still quibbling over the divorce arrangements? Unless I've missed something very obvious!

CocoFifi · 22/01/2023 19:47

I can't believe you are even asking the question. Money brings out the worst in people

Bellalalala · 22/01/2023 19:50

MademoiselleTrunchbull · 22/01/2023 19:33

I can see both sides. The money is legally hers so she is surprisingly generous giving it back. But only really in comparison to the majority of grabby selfish fuckers out there.

In reality, she's not lifted a finger or made any contribution to the earning of this money and it sounds like the ex wife herself didn't really contribute very much either and 'did well' from the divorce in financial terms relative to the effort she put.

No. The money she gave back was not her money legally. It’s the children’s money. It should never have gone to him.

Where in inheritance law does it say you must have contributed to earning it? Do you think that about all inheritance? The receiver must have contributed to earning it.

The money the ex wife for was always her money. They were married. This man left his first marriage with nothing but debt. He may have made some investments before getting married but the investments will have gained most of their value during the 25 year marriage. Investments don’t gain big gains in a couple of years. So it was always legally half hers. If he genuinely felt that money should ah e always remained his, he could have not lived with her and married her and done his own house work.

How do you know how much ‘effort’ she put in? Also If you read the ops latest post this man sounds pretty awful I am sure it was an effort just to be married to him. As it is with any man that thinks the money coming in is only there’s. And also you would know that she is the aunt.

Iceicebabytoocold · 22/01/2023 20:29

OP why did you not declare your brother had children? You should have been asked this by the solicitor.

MademoiselleTrunchbull · 22/01/2023 20:39

Where in inheritance law does it say you must have contributed to earning it? Do you think that about all inheritance? The receiver must have contributed to earning it.

I'm not talking about the law. I'm talking about where one person works much harder and yet still splits it evenly. Honestly speaking, I do think it's pretty unfair unless the other has facilitated their career. Whether the ex wife was still a SAHM after 25 years of marriage is pretty doubtful, but I'm talking more in general.