Children in business class......what the heck is wrong with it?

[Indaba]

Forgive the rant but I am so, so, so, so annoyed........I have been following a thread elsewhere asking about long haul holiday recommendations.

The poster was intending to fly business class and I have been astounded at the number of mumsnetters who have argued

1. children shouldn't be in business class at all just in case they annoy someone who needs to work.

2. business people have paid so much for their tickets they deserve to be completely undisturbed.

Please can you tell me when it was decided
business people rights are more important than anyone else in the universe and they should be able to dictate who can buy a transport ticket on a public airline?

I thought we were all created equally. Or have things changed and some people out rank others according to earning power or their jobs?

I flew back from Lagos yesterday (not business class) and there were some children in business class. We once paid extra to go in business class as we thought the 2 babies would sleep better but they ended up crying one or other of them all night continuously from the Carribean. Nice other parents ended up helping by taking them to the back of the plane in shifts. You would think at least one might have slept. There was no moment when both were silent, amazing on an 8 hour flight.

I'm flying to the UK on Sunday afternoon, meeting on Monday, flying back overnight and in the office for a normal working day on Tuesday. I don't yet know which class I will be flying in (confirmed in economy, waitlisted for upgrade, both ways). I am really hoping not to be in economy on the way back - when I have to go to work after the flight - not because of anything to do with children or other passengers, but simply because it is easier to sleep and generally more comfortable spending 7 hours in business/first than it is in cattle class. Wherever I end up, I would generally prefer there not to be annoying fellow passengers, but as has been said a lot already, not all children are annoying and not all annoying passengers are children - and while I can think of several situations where a passenger has been responsible for a delay, in no case has that passenger been a child.

I can see that there could be something to be said for 'quiet areas' like the quiet coaches on trains, especially now that inflight mobile phone use is becoming more possible - but am having difficulty seeing how it could be enforced; eg when someone starts loudly snoring, are the cabin crew supposed to wake him up and move him? if the only seats left are in the 'quiet zone', and a family wants to book, should the airline have to fly with empty seats? should the quiet zone be more expensive (ie part of business class?) - it isn't, on trains.

The airlines certainly expect children in the premium cabins, given that their staff are allowed to extend their staff travel privileges to their children, with some limitations - eg in BA, at least a few years ago, staff kids had to be 12 to fly in 1st class. One senior executive, with a tall 11 year old who had managed to get away with it a few times, realised something had gone wrong with said child's upbringing when a check in agent had actually looked at the passport, put family in business; boy was most indignant on getting on the plane at having to 'slum it'!

but on another occasion, a BA staff member was getting irritated by a couple of young boys being rather rambunctious in first class, and was contemplating saying something - looked across the aisle, saw their mother and decided to shut up. Mother was Princess Diana....

Just a word in support of child-free business passengers....
We've done 3 long-haul holidays and 1 super-long-haul extended business trip all with DCs ranging in age from 6m-5yr, all in business class (no, not loaded, just DH work being generous + us plundering 15yrs' worth of air miles!).
On every single occasion other passengers - the majority apparently travelling for business, and some quite probably expected to go straight to work on arrival - have been perfectly tolerant and courteous + either politely ignored DCs or smiled/chatted. We have never had (or been aware of, at least) a single grumpy comment or so much as a 'shhh!'.
Like most normal people we are sticklers for DCs behaviour particularly when it's likely to inconvenience others, so the death stares are more likely to be coming from us! Fortunately DCs have behaved surprisingly brilliantly on flights and on every single occasion at least one fellow passenger has come over to us and commented on how well-behaved they've been - I always REALLY appreciate this - they don't have to say it, and it always makes me feel relieved, grateful (to them) and a bit proud (of DCs). So just wanted to say a thank you to all the polite and tolerant business travellers out there!

The sniffiest, snootiest attitude we ever had to DCs (yes, to DCs directly, not even to us) was not from a fellow passenger but from a self-important steward on a BA flight to Singapore.

id not want a kid near me
blardy hell no

Oh, maniacbug, I have had those comments too, and they do make such a difference when you have just been having to entertain small children on a plane for 7 odd hours... (single mother, expat, kids of 4 and 2.5....)

I don't want kids near me either but the damned airlines will insist on seating us together.

Earplugs are your friend, they block out children, drunks, snorers and so on.

Maniacbug, this has been my experience in Club with small children (alas not recently because we're too poor), but people are politeness itself, and I have to say that given the increased space between seats and good in flight entertainment, free toys and so on, kids and their parents cope a lot better and consequently do not kick off as much. If you treat them and their parents like savages then it seems to be they will respond by bahving that way as well.

I do think a lot of families would pay a bit extra for enhanced customer service both at the airport and during the flight. Things I would value include:

Dedicated lounge and security area (a bit like the one for unaccompanied minors at Heathrow). I would pay probably £50 to use this for the whole family, if it included light snacks and nappy changing materials, and if there was seriously reduced security queuing.

Simple kids' drinks in a cup with a lid and a straw and kids' sandwiches and fruit snacks on the flight. I would happily pay a fiver a child for this, probably (unit cost to airline £1-£2)

Nappy changing packs with a disposable mat, size 4 nappy, 5 wipes and a scented bag. I would pay a pound or so for something like this. (Unit cost to airline 50p or less)

Kids' entertainment pack like you get in restaurants - I would pay £2 or so for one of these, more if the toys or colouring books were really good quality. (Unit cost to airline 50p or less)

So that's £70+ the airlines are not getting out of me, because they think I want to queue like a refugee for two hours and subsequently want microwaved bacon rolls, perfume, Yves St Laurent lip gloss and playing cards with pictures of planes on.

At the moment I just drive everywhere, having given up flying, because I refuse to be nudie body scanned just because a group of male physicists thought it would be a wheeze to invent a new expensive toy to sell to airports, and then persuaded the Government that this would save the world from terrorism (which it will have practically no effect on).

I think the key issue is not about children in bc per se but more the behaviour of children on planes in general. I hate it when parents make no effort with badly behaved children in any situation but in the confined space of a plane it is magnified.

Ds has been on lots of long haul flights since he was 2 and has always behaved impeccably mostly because he is either asleep or he is working his way through the rucksack I take for him full of games,treats to keep him occupied. I have heard some parents express disbelief that the airline hasn't provided lots of things for children. If we get anything on board it is bonus but I never rely on it. I think a lot of parents don't actually think how dull flying actually is and how 10 or 12 hours is a long time for a child to be confined, especially day time flights.

Sorry I haven't read all the responses but I think 'business class' is the name of section of the airplane with nicer food/service and more room. Its not only for people who travel for business. If it was, the airline would not allow children to sit in this section.

There are also plenty of people who travel for work who's company's do not pay for business class and they sit in economy. My DH has/does both.

So, in this case no matter where you sit with your children - you will disturb some poor person looking for peace and quiet!

The times I have flown business with the children have been Dubai & the Maldives. To be honest, even on the Dubai flight there was a real mix of people travelling and I would say the percentage of people travelling for work were in the minority.

So yes, if I could afford to fly business I would. However, I totally understand why other people are disappointed when you sit near them!

hmc

I second Boffinmum's idea, especially with the hand luggage restrictions. It would also be nice if you could go to a cafe in an airport and be able to sit the kids close to the counter to be able to order food. I've often had to rely on kind fellow passengers who will sit with mine while I go and order.

It is also nice when someone else compliments you on managing the children well as one guy did after I'd marshalled my two under-fives through yet another round of American security, shoes off, the lot. It makes a difference to a really stressful journey.

I think well behaved children with parents who are in control and considerate are welcome everywhere. Children who behave badly without manners are not welcome anywhere even in 'cattle class'.

Yabu with regards to children but I'm sitting on the fence about babies.

we flew business class.weans et al.staff fussed over the weans.was really relaxing

There is a child free cabin on all planes. Its called the cockpit

Funny thread.

You get what you pay for, and if you pay for a business class seat for a child, they are entitled to that seat. Tough luck to those who don't like it.

I travel alot with the dc and always business class.

You pay for the seat and to the airlines - money is money.

Mine have bar one short trip to Europe behaved like little angels and that was only for 10 mins on the descent when their ears went haywire.

If you seriously think a child is going to sit in their seat, not speak, not move and not get up for 12 hrs then show me an adult who does the same!

I travel Down Under three times per year for family reasons, they sit down, turn on the TV, get their milk and go to sleep. They pee and poo on a 12 hr trip just like any other human being. I have seen appalling behavior by adults and children alike in business class.

The braying adult in business class is far worse than a child.

Global warming anyone?

I don't think you can blame global warming on the presence of children in business class.

can't believe what an ureal view of the (working) world some people have. Yes, it might be unreasonable for companies to ask people to step off a plane into a meeting- but that is the way it is. If you can't work en route, it's not the company that suffers, it's you as an individual. Those who don't get it are those, I assume, who don't work or do work and earn such vast salaries they can look down on those who are only allowed to travel BC cos they are on a fast turn around. That said, I honestly believe anyone who is paying for it is entitled to travel, with kids or without. And also agree it's not just children who are disruptive - so will stand by my suggestion of quiet coach type option, allowing families or those who want ot party to do so. Am not a party pooper, just know what it's like to lose hours and hours of working time - and that is not my choice.

no just the vast amount of flights some people on here are talking about 1-2/yr might just about be acceptable but folk are going on about 50+ with their kids!!

travel by plane because we have to.deadlines and all that

I am atoning for my long-haul business class environmental sins by camping in Cornwall this summer Only we will probably get MORE grumpy looks when our lot want to get up and start having 'silly adventures' at the crack of dawn.

fair play maniacbug - have fun

We have always travelled long haul flights with ds in business class and he has been an absolute angel, I do always feel paranoid as you do get the evil stares from some people when they realize they're sitting next to a pre schooler but most people travelling in business are either using air miles or their company is paying so if my dh is forking out for 3 full price seats I don't see why someone should feel entitled to be on a child free flight over my ds. If they can afford a business class ticket they can afford Bose noise cancelling headphones ( which most airlines provide for free) and nowadays you get huge screens separating you from the person next to you. At the end of the day even though I would class myself as a normally considerate person I'm not giving up the comfort and the chance of a flat bed for a 14 hour flight just on the off chance that my child may annoy someone sitting next to them. I'm confidant enough that dh will behave and if he didn't I wouldn't just sit and ignore it. Those are the sort of parents that shouldn't be allowed on any cabin as it's just plain selfish!