nursery for babies

[clarinetplayer]

to tell my sister that she will miss out on many of the most important milestones in her baby's life if she sends her aged six months to nursery 5 days a week from 8am until 6pm. This is longer than a school day. My sister got very offended when I suggested that being looked after as part of a cohort of 8 babies by three carers was not ideal for her seven month old daughter. She doesn't need to work full time but loves her job and is worried that if she goes pt she'll miss out on promotion. Is it unreasonable to think that now she's a mum she should put her daughter's needs first?

FairyMum - that's really crap.

Nancy has come to an opinion about this based on what she knows about nurseries and what she personally believes about babies and their needs. She's not alone - there are many, many people who feel the same - some of who, like me, have used nursery care for their very small babies.

I think it's really that you think anyone who has a negative view of institutional childcare for tiny babies must have arrived at this opinion through a sense of inadequacy, rather than through reasoned and informed debate.

Fairymum - I've been to loads of nurseries. I used to teach on NNEB and CACHE courses. I know there are good nurseries. I also know that a great deal of nursery provision is NOT good and that there are many babies who are spending the bulk of their waking hours in ONE room, with just the odd trip out during the day.

And yes - children of different ages DO have different emotional needs and different care requirements. Of course they bloody do. Duh!

And I'm with you on 4 year olds spending all day in a classroom with the sort of child/staff ratios that most primary schools have. My four year old needs lots of love and cuddles. The difference though between him now and him at 7 months is that now he can talk and tell me what he thinks. And much as he enjoys various aspects of school he's always said that he'd rather be with me, because he loves me and he doesn't want to be apart from me all day. I'm sure he would have felt this vastly more strongly when he was a tiny baby who spent much of his time in my arms and at the breast.

I think there is a difference to feel that FT nursery is not a good option for YOU and perhaps not the ideal (I don't think its ideal either) to saying it is cruelty to children.

From what you are writing about nurseries it seems to me you might not have experienced a very good nursery.

Well Titty, that is your child. Children are different. I have 4 children. 2 of them absolutely thrived in nursery and I had to practically drag them home by the hair because they had so much fun. My 3rd child needed more time at home which we realised and adjusted our hours accordingly (we were lucky enough to do this) and our 4th child was at home until 12 months. Most parents are able to respond to their children's needs and realise when something is not right. We are not completely oblivious to our children

YANBU she is your sister, and I'm sure you usually share opinions. However, YABU to assume that your viewpoint is correct.

What matters to the child is that it is cared for and loved, it doesn't just have to be the parent(s) who provide this.

IMO missing out on milestones will hurt the mother more than the child

Fairymum - lots of children adore nursery. My three all went to nursery and enjoyed it. But we're talking about a very young baby here, and we're talking about that baby doing a 50 hour week away from its parents.

And I don't think it's always obvious to parents that a baby isn't getting optimal care.

Look at those children being sexually abused in that nursery last year. None of the parents had a clue. Most parents have no idea when their child is being abused by a relative or a family 'friend'. I myself spent 6 emotionally lonely years at boarding school. I didn't have the language to describe my own feelings at the time or the cognitive ability to analyse what I was going through in a meaningful way. My parents thought I loved it because I always seemed to happy to go back.

I'm very interested in the research showing that very young children in nursery have consistently higher cortisol levels than children cared for at home - even those children who appear to be happy and settled. I think nursery is an intrinsically more stressful environment for babies than being with a parent. It's bound to be isn't it? Unless the parent is inadequate, resentful, depressed or unloving, and most parents are not like this.

The main issue is that most women cannot just give up work every time they have a baby. We have 6 months paid mat leave and 12 months mat leave is available. I rather focus to improve family-friendly policies and improve flexibility in the workplace so parents have more of a choice. TBH,I rarely see posters who harp on about cortisol-studies follow this up with anything dynamic.

And for every child abused in nursery there are 100s of children being abused in their homes. That argument is a bit like someone who travels 1000s of miles by car because they are scared of flying....

buy her biddulph or O.james really rub salt in the wound.seeing you are being so shitty and unsupportive to her.anytime she talks about baby and nursery roll your eyes and go on about precious moments she is missing

hey why dont you give her a few brillo pads she can exfoliate with
some blunt scissors to cut her hair with
a scratchy hair shirt to signify becoming a martyr mummy giving it all up
keep a scrapbook of quasi-reserch about daycare hell for her
goodness to betsy she may want career and money.well she'd better not get any high floutin ideas now she is a mum

goodness me are you resentfulof her ability to have both.career and baby.wee bitty green at the gills sister

you must be a pleasure to have around.a real comfort

TItty and Nancy: I'm not getting involved in this discussion as I've been slated on another one for believing that long hours in nursery are a bad idea for small children, never mind babies. I've been called bitchy, inadequate, inferior and lacking in self esteem and confidence, needing to nursery-bash just to justify my decision to be a SAHM .

But, for what it's worth, I agree with both of you. I just wanted to say so as it's a bit lonely, feeling that you're the only ones in the world who feel like this. All I can say is that just as MN is politically skewed in a way that doesn't reflect RL, so too the dominant views here on nurseries aren't a reflection of any kind of real reality.

Scottishmummy's snide comment is typical.

does mn politically skewed=people had temerity to disagree?my my sour grapes from you i feel

No, Scottishmummy. Just that MN isn't representative of RL; just a particular, working-mother, slightly-left-wing-y sub-section of it (hence MN's championing of Nick Clegg and the Fib Dems, who ended up with so relatively few votes in RL ). Or, alternatively, they are just the particularly noisy MN-ers. I really don't see how you can extraploate sour grapes from that.

Oh lo: extrapolate.

banging on about conspiracy theories and lefties certainly reads as sour grapes.so your opinion wasn't met with plaudits-from this you assume mn to be skewed. on a discursive forum you will encounter a diverse range of opinion.amd the trick isnt to jibber cluck cluck about mn.the enjoyable part is the diverse range of opinion

It's too much, full time at a nursery I think. Bloody long day 8 til 6 or whatever. Don't know how people do it to be honest. Don't think you're BU at all OP. If she's happy with her decision then you can't upset her anyway. If you DO upset her then she is being defensive. The truth hurts.

but the rub is,for many families ft nursery works.if individually suits the op sister then so be it

Bollocks.It works for the mother because she'd rather go to work. But that baby hasn't got a voice to object to being seperated from it's mother has it. Mothers convince themselves that it's ok to leave them. It's not.

Tell her what you think OP.

Well Santander, babies are just accessories anyway are they not? I need to go to work so I can keep up my expensive shoe-habit and buy designer baby-clothes like Suri Cruise has. After all, if you cannot dress them in designer gear and push them in a bugabooooo, why have them?

being mum isnt giving things up competition.who gave up work,who downsized the most etc.there is no need to forgo career if one doesn't want to

i knew id work and use ft nursery.had it all planned out.work and being parent are very important to me.solely being mum isnt enough.i had career and financial independence before children.i wish to retain it

presumably the op sister and dh have discussed planned and weighed up pro and con.irrespective of what anyone else opines it is their family choice

Its best to tell your sister your opinion.. you probably know her best..
YANBU

No point in having the bugaboo fairy it's bedtime by the time you get them home.

the parents are only ones best placed to decide this.others can opine but in terms of pecking order the mum and dad trumps the sister

fleet of bugaboos,designer bags,chi chi clothes aren't for the baby you fool.they are for others to look approvingly and know you spent the gdp of peru on baby products.

what is the point of having babies,if one cannot have obvious conspicuous spending?

lin and leo pink matches my eyes,perfectly

Lol, Santander.

At least I get them home in style Santander.