To think you and your partner ar unemployed you shouldnt really be trying for another child...

[Nointhemood]

probably be flamed for this. But I know a couple who have two small young children under 3 and are trying for another even though neither have managed to find employment in the last few years. I would love to have another child but even with a dh in a job we couldnt afford it just doesnt seem fair.Im not saying that people on benefits shouldnt have children as each cicircumstance is different etc.But surely with a couple who can both work and aren't exactly childless there should be mor responsible. I feel really angry tbh that we can'y afford to have a child and wouldn't dream of it in their situation

sorry should be wearing my spec's

so how much more a month would you need in order to afford a second child then??

i am sure i ahve read this before. it's the same thread with a different title isn't it?

yawn.

People in developing countries shouldn't really have kids then as many are very skint indeed, as in living off aid from Western charities skint.

It probably isn't the most considered choice but it is a human right to procreate.

And people who can't figure out paragraphs shouldn't really be re-producing since they are clearly not particularly academically great and it really does fuck the gene pool.

And lots of other imperfect beings should be castrated if you follow your argument further.

This has been done before but i think YANBU. They already have 2 so it's not like you're saying 'no kids for you at all'. I don't see why it is mind your own business if they are basically going to be funded out of public money. We have a duty to keep the welfare state for those in desperate need, not those who fancy having another kid. Otherwise the whole thing will eventually collapse and doesn't matter how much you need it you will get nowt

well if they have agreed that the mum will be a sahm....then they have 2 kids,always planned a third,but then hubby loses his job....then why should the sahm deferr HER plans?? he could be back in work within 2-3 months.

In reality secunda, it would be better if it all collapsed and natural selection began to occur. Not really. It could never happen - we have evolved too much and become too sophisticated to allow the kids of starving families to die off.

However, as we have evolved and begun controlling everything to the extreme so we have a new set of problems.

To think that we have such freedom of choice as to procreate despite not having the means to sustain our offspring AND STILL SURVIVE, and that the solution to this becomes to deny procreation..........................

Well that's the employed who conceive a child and subsequently get made redundant buggered then, isn't it?

And those who have a/another child and thus are entitled to tax credits/housing/council tax benefit as a result.

Any hands up, those who wouldn't be entitled to any benefits of this kind had they not had another child?

Or any hands up from those who deliberately got pregnant just so they could receive those benefits?

Thought so.

ILoveTiffany:
"well if they have agreed that the mum will be a sahm....then they have 2 kids,always planned a third,but then hubby loses his job....then why should the sahm deferr HER plans?? "

THEIR plans, surely? planning to have a child isnt the sole choice of the mother.

and OP, in this situation YANBU.

disregarding people living in extreme poverty with no access to contraception, and those who conceive and then get made redundant, and all the other situations, because obviously that cant be helped really, and those situations are awful, but lets just look at the one that the op has mentioned.

but planning your children around what you can afford is a very sensible way of being a parent surely?

i mean, i WANT a new car, and i can afford to buy it, but cant afford to maintain it. so wont be getting my lovely shiny new car.

Every circumstance is different yes, but I do think its not on to plan it really.

OK, risking another flaming but IMHO human responsibilities should come along with human rights. I'm sick of hearing about rights i'm afraid - what happened to the other half?

In my bleaker moments I do wonder how long it will take for the welfare state to break down completely and for people in the west to start starving.

A few centuries ago people who had another child when they could not support them would risk that child, or their others or themselves starving. It was barbaric and horrific. I'm glad we support the weakest in our society and have some provision for those temporarily in hard times, but I'd far rather people chose to have fewer children and be able to support them instead of appearing to take the state's support for granted.

well,no. its her body. maybe she wants her family done and dusted,close age gaps etc,all sorted so SHE can go back to work too?? he cant exactly have them for her...

"well if they have agreed that the mum will be a sahm....then they have 2 kids,always planned a third,but then hubby loses his job....then why should the sahm deferr HER plans??"

I have no opinion on the OP, but this baffles me.

She should not have HER plans. She and her husband made plans together, things changed.

For her to plough on with her childbearing plans regardless of the ability of her partner to bring home the money (that allowed her to stay at home and earn nothing) would be almost sociopathic in its selfish disregard for the needs and feelings of others.

and while i'm at it.... (wine might be talking here...) but to get tax credits don't you have to actually pay tax? so you pay less tax overall rather than just outright receive support?

yes,HER,she's an individual!

michaelaS you can receive 'tax credits' without paying tax.

are you thinking of working tax credits?

ilovetiffany, it is a womans choice to be pregnant and give birth to a child, but in a normal, healthy relationship bringing a child into a family is a choice made by the mother and father surely?

Lemony..... You would perhaps think so, a look on the relationships threads here on 'modern, middle class' mumsnet, tells me otherwise!!

oops yes am thinking of working tax credits!

Are you saying people actually get money BACK from the tax office after not paying any tax? Surely this is a miracle un-beknown to man woman and child? wow!

OP you say you're angry, you are also jealous.

So this woman is going to have another child whilst you're not, good for her!

Leonardo Da Vinci was the son of a penniless single mother, maybe she shouldn't have had him because she couldn't really afford to?

Thankfully that's just not how the human heart works or most of us wouldn't be here.

ROFL at LdV being mentioned I don't suppose his mum had access to contraception really did she?

It is the British way - have as many children as you fancy because those of us who work will support you. I suspect that won't be quite such an attractive proposition now the Tories are in

YANBU- people like this are a PITA, a blight on society and the shallow end of the gene pool. I have every confidence that they'll bring their children up to be just as irresponsible and feckless as themselves.

Seashore- the OP could have another child if she just went on benefits. However, it seems she has a bit of personal responsibility and pride which is hardly something to be disparaged.

Sure, we need a welfare state to help those in genuine need, but it should not be there to allow people to intensify their already dire situations.