to wonder why some intelligent educated people just don't discipline their dcs?

[mayonaise]

Me, DH and our 3 dcs have just had an exhausting week with old friends of ours who came to stay with their 3 dcs. It was a nightmare.

We were friends with this other couple before any of us had children. Me and DH are quite strict I guess, we take the view that the parents are ultimately in charge, there are consequences for undesirable behaviour and the dcs have to pull their weight around the house.

Our friends dcs were rude to us and their parents, never picked anything up and either me or their mum did it, whined and demanded everything with no manners, refused to eat the food I cooked, and one of them was quite mean to my dd.

These are lovely old friends of ours, intelligent, succesful, civilised adults, so what are they thinking letting their dcs behave like this? Can't they see they are going to have such a huge problem on their hands, tbh they do already....

Unfortunately it is the pushy, selfish people that get on in life.Very common trait in some middle class children I fear

How old are the children?

Are they like this all the time though? Some people don't like telling their DC off when they're out and about, makes them look less than a perfect happy family?

I just give one of those 'looks' and DD usually takes the hint

Mayonnaise it may all turn out OK in the end....

We once had old friends of my parents staying with their 3 DC and they broke: the toaster/a chair/made a hole in the wall and one of them hid under the table because he wouldn't eat what my mum had cooked! Even we (about 11 and 7 at the time) were appalled!! They've since turned out absolutely fine - intelligent, polite, hardworking, etc.

(Their parents, BTW, were West Germans explicitly raising their DC in a laissez faire way to over-compensate for an incredibly strict upbringing.)

The children are between 4 and 9. I don't know about all the time, but they were certainly pretty consistently awful for the entire week we spent with them.

The mum is lovely, very loving and caring which is obviously a good thing but she seems to be so scared to "upset" them for some reason.

unfortunately, you have to accept that your friends are never going to parent in the same way as you do. it is hard but you have to decide whether you want to have them stay again. it is things like this that can strain friendships. i am sure there were things about your parenting style that annoyed your friends (not saying you did anything wrong).

OH and i are very close to my best friend and her husband but i know i would find it very hard to spend a week with her and she doesn't even have kids yet!!

14hours that's interesting as I think at least one of the couple might have had a very victorian upbringing, so that could be a reason.

The problem from my point of view at the moment is that they can't do anything because they are feel so unable to control the children, which in turn meant that things like eating out weren't possible last week.

Maybe they are afraid of a confrontation in public...it would be difficult to discipline children when visiting friends because they would be afraid of causing a scene.......it could be their values are completely different of course.Best not to be too judgemental about other people's children because you don't know what battlesthey face at home.

booyhoo yes I'm sure we annoyed them too, perhaps when I suggested her 9 year old ds could just not have any dinner instead of his mum going and making him a sandwich because he didn't like what I cooked. Honestly, a 9 year old boy whining and crying like a toddler....

it is very hard. i have a cousin who lets her 6 year old DD scream and whinge and just be very rude and i have to bite my tongue when they are here.

scurry I see what you are saying, I was just so shocked, I can't believe they don't see what a huge problem they have on their hands. They basically feed their kids junk, for example, because they don't want fights about food. The 9 year old punched his mother on several occasions - she told him no ice cream the first time he did it, but when we got to the park she just let him have ice cream.

Reading what you've just written, it sounds like they're of the 'I'm your friend, rather than your parent' school of thought.

Or, they are very uncomfortable around negative emotions generally and just want to 'make them go away'. It's quite hard to just let your toddler have a tantrum and not give in.. and it they've had bad childhood experiences may be really distressed around other people's distress, IYSWIM?

Sorry, am being all Saturday-night-rambly and overly Freudian

It makes sense 14hours. It is hard to let a toddler scream on, but isn't it obvious that if you let them see when they're young that you won't give in, they shouldn't still be having tantrums at 7, 8 or 9?! The 9 year old still whines and screams whenever things are not 100% the way he wants them, and also punches and kicks and shouts insults as well.

Surely this is not too complicated logic?

Maybe it's the "children are good at manipulating" vs "children are trying to tell you something" debate....

My sister is like this with her DS. He misbehaves and then she promises to take him to the toy shop to buy something small if he promises to behave. He then continues to misbehave, she threatens not to take him and invariably takes him anyway, because she hates to promise him something and then take it away. He breaks things, hits DS, who is 11mo (he is three). He eats shite all the time.(He exists on white bread, crisps, pancakes and sugar free drinks. He does eat a lot of fruit though) He makes a mess of the house. He used to be a really sweet adorable kid and she has just spoilt him.

My Dad (who was quite strict with us growing up - no harm done, he's a great Dad, we just had rules regarding politeness etc., and consequences (no t.v, toys taken away) if we broke them) had a chat with her a while ago and it did not go down well at all. I dread her visits and usually tell her I'm busy. TBF, she recieves little or no help form her layabout DP, but she will not stop spoiling her DS. She's doing him no favours and it makes me a bit .

Bustle I don't think direct talks about parenting styles ever go well! The best I came up with this last week was to bite my tongue (a lot) when it was just between our friends and their dcs, but if their behaviour was affecting me or my dcs or damaging my house/property, then I did not hesitate to say something. I have to say, their behaviour improved for me.

I do kind of see what you mean. I recently met up with an old friend who is the sweetest gentlest woman and a very thoughtful parent. She has had twins since we lived in the same city, and her eldest is rude and uncommunicative, and the twins seemed the same. She bends over backwards for them, but from my brief snapshot impression, it goes unappreciated. I am far less indulgent patient, but fortunately have a daughter the same age as her eldest who is pretty much a delight in comparison.

Sounds very familiar Portia.

Our friends are the nicest people, but their whole life is controlled by their dcs, what they can eat, where they can go, what the dcs want to do rather than ever what they themselves want. I think some of it may be that they have a lot of money and would rather pay a nanny to watch the kids than have to bring them out anywhere like restaurants, hence the kids have never got used to sitting at tables.

They do think their dcs are "difficult", I just don't get why they don't make the connection that the dcs are badly behaved because they have no boundaries and are given into the whole time.

Oh yes- my old friend seems to spend her weekends ferrying them all to skate parks etc, while I am much more selfish about getting some time to myself. But when I do go out of my way to do something nice for my daughter, rather than letting her make her own entertainment, she appreciates it rather than grunts and asks why she can't have more pocket money.

I am the same. I don't want heaps of gratitude or anything, but they can know they are lucky imo! We did so many nice things last week, but the guest dcs moaned and complained so much - why can't we have ice cream again, I want coke not water (guess what we drink at dinner....), I'm so bored waiting here, you're so mean, I hate you, this food is disgusting etc etc....

My dcs are far from perfect, believe me, but this last week has made me appreciate them a lot!

I think they should have to walk around supermarkets and wipe tables sometimes. Life isn't all soft play and swimming and chips and coke. Goood grief.

Want to start a 'Slack But Surprisingly Effective Parenting Collective'? It could prove a money-spinner .

heh - can I join your Collective, Portia? That sounds like a good one.

I and my sibs were all given a fairly strict upbringing - I appreciate it and am carrying on in the same vein with my DS. He has good manners and is generally well behaved (although he is also sweet natured so I'm not taking all the credit!). My bro OTOH has major "ishoos" with the upbringing we had (he has a lot of ishoos about a lot of things) and has gone out of his way to do it differently with his DC. They are not a nightmare but they are a PITA for my Dad to have in his house as their boundaries are very loose and they aren't told off when they do things wrong - just "explained to". This works better now they are older but when they were 2-3 they were nightmares and my parents were hamstrung because my bro would not allow them to tell off his PFBs either.

Just wait until your kids are older and you get your reward: your kids being described as "lovely" by their teachers (secondary school not push over primary ones).
OP just be very wary of going on holiday with or having other families stay for too long. Having your own family stay is tough enough.

Unfortunately for some reason with regards to the most professional and successful parents the children are the most disrespectful, and little hooligans.

We own a large hotel, and if the adults have anything other than just Mr and Mrs, or we chat to them and find out their profession, we know that the room, will more likely than not require work after they vacate.

rainbow - that's a bit of a sweeping statement.....I'm think DP & I would fall into your "successful" category

....except there is no way on the planet I would ever leave a hotel room in a mess or let DD be rude to anyone. IMHO there are children with no manners - & beautifully behaved ones - from all walks of life.

I'm sure money/success or the lack of it isn't the reason why some children are disrespectful & little hooligans!