I'm not against working Mums but this is going too far.

[Intefering]

Name changed regular.

A friend of mine has 3 young children with a partner in the military. He is due to leave in 3 or 4 years time I think.

Said friend has told me that she will be re-joining the Navy when her youngest starts reception in 2 years time, several reasons why, money issues, she's worried that after 8 years being a SAHM she will be unemployable, she loves the Navy and nothing else career wise interests her.

AIBU to suggest that this is a ridiculous idea?! I doubt she's considered all the time away from her DC, how her DH will cope picking up the slack at home on his own. Yes she may have loved the Navy but that's behind her and she should concentrate on her responsibilities as a wife and mother.

I'm trying to advise her as her friend but I can't see past her incredible selfishness, how can she have all these kids just to abandon them? She's worried that in 18 years time when all the kids have left home she'll be in a miserable job having watched life pass her by, I really want to tell her that she should of thought of that before getting pregnant.

AIBU and if I am can someone tell me how this will work because I really can't see it.

Hey OP, fuck off again you big stinking bag of twunty fanjo bits.

as I said earlier - being at home all the time doesn't make you a good parent providing a happy childhood for your children, just like being at work for long hours doesn't make you a shit parent making their children's lives shit.

I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that some children who had a parent at home couldn't wait to leave home. I'm sure there are just as many children who had working parents couldn't wait to leave home as well.

I personally think that (as SAHM) a woman that defines herself purely a a woman isn't quite right. I'm a mother, a friend, a member of my church, I was also a wife for a long time as well. I didn't beome a mother 9 1/2yrs ago and lose the other parts of my identity.

"defines herself purely as a mother that should read

I am in awe of the new language I have learned on MN. Finally I feel I can remonstrate and insult as elaborately as out Italian friends.

BTW both myself and DP travel for work and I get a hell of a lot of SAHD action. DS has not grown horns or forked tongue yet.

posie - surely even most SAHMs wouldn't solely define themselves as a mother and nothing else, though? Surely they equally see themselves as daughters, sisters, friends, wives etc. In the same way that WOHMs don't define themselves solely as salaried workers. I think that was what Quattro meant rather than a dig at SAHMs.

to be honest - I've been on a lot of threads with Quattro that revolve around working and she's never once come across as someone with some sort of inferior view of SAHM's.

what a stupid OP. the poster, not the post.

cornflowers (my this thread has raced on sine your comment! - sorry for late reply) No I am not suggesting that time spent with my friend's young children is wasted - I haven't expressed myself very clearly. I was trying to say that she doesn't want to waste the time spent in training as a military GP by not putting herself to the service of others in what she was trained to do. I was using my friend as an example because nobody batted an eyelid when she chose to go back to work (despite a couple of tours abroad) because she's a doctor.

I just think OP's friend has the same rights to a a military career, but it might help OP to imagine that how she would feel if her friend was wanting to be doctor. I think OP may be a little concerned at the risk element of soldiering/navy, but the point of the military is service to others and service to one's country, and it is great for any family to grow up knowing about the sacrifices this entails. It's not a selfish career, and for OP to suggest shows a lack of understanding of what miltary careers are really about.

toccata....Really? Perhaps you've not been around long enough then. Quattro is definitely one of the most 'superior' beings on MN when it comes to wohm/sahm debate.

If she wasn't meant to be offensive why the heads up about being smug? The second part of her comment was to get away with the first part....

not been round long enough?? - 5yrs long enough for you?

she's never once come across to me as being "superior" - just a woman that's happy and confident about the choices she's made for herself and her family

posieparker - I didn't say a child isn't going to be shaped by their formative experiences! That's pretty obvious!! Where some people make a massive leap is in assuming that this fact means that children can only have a good experience if a parent is around 24/7! Clearly if it were that simple, then there would be no argument would there? All children who had been brought up with a parent at home all the time would be clever, successful, with a wonderful career and relationships in their adult life, and totally happy. And all children who had not had a parent at home all the time would be miserable and unsuccessful! Hmm, strange that some of the very unhappy and disaffected children I see in my job have a parent (or in some cases both parents) not working!

The truth is, life is far more complex, and the key ingredients for a happy and positive childhood - ie good attachments to parents, a healthy lifestyle, and enriching experiences are perfectly possible to achieve in families where the parents work, and in families where they don't.

As for your comment that I must be pretty stupid to think that the outcomes for my children aren't any different posieparker, perhaps you'd like to expand on that? How exactly do you think my children are different by virtue of the fact that they have a working father, and a mother who worked part time when they were small and full time from school age up? Specify please, I'm interested.

I can tell you the difference its made to me. I find my career really interesting and stimulating, I have a good social circle at work as well as out of work, and we have a lot more money than if just one of us worked. I also have the reassurance that should my DH die first, I won't be reliant on the reduced pension that the spouse gets - I've got my own really good pension too - which is great as I don't want to grow old in poverty. But those are all differences to me. Tell me how my children are different please?

Toccata.....sorry but you're wrong. I could trawl through threads where Quattro and a poster with River or something in their name were particularly vile about SAHMs...

well we'll have to agree to differ then posie as it's never anything I've picked up.

Strong opinions maybe, but not vile.

I see nothing wrong with Quattro's assertion either. Why would any woman choose to define herself solely as a mother? That's got bog all to do with any WOHM/SAHM debate, it's simply making the point that every woman has a lot more aspects to who they are than just one. I don't define myself purely as a mother, or a teacher, or a wife - I am all of those things and more.

that's not to say I've never debated with her about the subject, but the same goes for posters such as violethill, we've often had differing opinions which we've put across quite strongly, but neither of them have had any "vile" comments that I remember.

And quite frankly I think that insinuating that Quattro is like Claire Khaw is totally bizarre!

I've been THAT disgusted by Claire Khaw's opinions on the FB/MN threads that I hid her a long time ago. It's never once crossed my mind that I wished I could hide quattro

posie - could you direct me to some of Quattro's "vile" comments about SAHP's? As I've just spent 1/2hr stalking her searching her posts and have so far failed to throw anything up - and I'm usually pretty nifty with the search function......

now now posie pretty poor form

dragging grievances around the board is pathetic

ahem

as you were the rest of you

And when you've done that, perhaps you could enlighten me as to how my children have turned out differently to how they would be if I were unemployed? I'm waiting to hear

Ah posie, everytime with the "SAHMs are picked on on MN and we all know they are superior" line...

'Are the Navy involved in Afghanistan? Surely it is landlocked?' My db has just done 6 months there, he is a Naval Officer (with kids); the Royal Marines (40 Cdo) are in the Navy, they are NOT Army. Afghanistan is a tri service operation with members of all three armed services being there.

Secondly, I am Naval brat as is my ds. Forces life can seem incomprehensible to those outside, but it works very well. I see far more of my dh than some of the other expat wives out here, whose husbands travel all the time for work. My family life was fine as a kid, as is ds's now.

For my family, the RN provides my dh with fascinating work (so he is not bored); a job change and a new skills set every 2.5 years; the chance to live abroad as a family; a very good salary and an excellent pension; and for me at the moment the chance to take a break from teaching and do an MA.

I was me before I had ds, I am still me now; being his mother is just one facet of my life, albeit a very important one, but I am other things as well, and I don't just see myself as being his Mum; why should the OPs friend not do the same? I think it is a great shame if we define ourselves solely by our children, when we have achieved other things as well.

By Quattrocento Wed 19-Mar-08 23:09:01
I'd rather work every day of my life than stay at home with babies and have to feel grateful that I am being 'provided for'.

You say that Sobernow, but you also say that you stayed at home. So erm why didn't you go out to work if that would have been your preference?

I have to say there is no way that I would pay for my DH to stay home. I'd worry too much about being the sole provider. I'd also think he was having an easy ride and start to resent him.

erm and this...
By Quattrocento Wed 19-Mar-08 21:09:12
"provider pressure is rarely acknowledged or recognised on mumsnet. it is absolutely shitty to be under huge pressure at work and to feel there's simply no escape."

I agree with that - many of my (exclusively) male colleagues are frankly terrified of the consequences of the credit crunch. They are the sole earners. It is scarey.

So people want a bit of appreciation for sticking the washing on - I understand that - but really you know, it doesn't compare.

By Quattrocento Fri 04-Jul-08 19:23:15
I think there is a genuine point that is not raised often and that is the issue of sole provider pressure. I work in a very competitive environment where redundancies are expected following the credit crunch.

It is only natural that people (usually men) who are sole providers should feel incredible levels of anxiety about the potential outcomes. It's different obviously with public sector jobs, but with most public sector jobs it must be really very difficult to survive on one income.

I only have sahm/wohm debates on Mnet actually, never in RL. Whenever men do complain about their sahm wives, I do the sisterly thing and say "Well I dunno abut you but I come to work for a bit of R&R from the children". Which forces a smile usually.

By Quattrocento Tue 27-May-08 11:36:14
That's a thoughtful post duchesse - of course I agree with you - but you put it much better than I did.

Yes I know a lot of sahms. I only know two with previously successful careers, and (a GP and an actuary) both were feeling violently miserable in roles that didn't suit them and just gave up in disgust. That's what I meant by a career cul-de-sac.

People who are enjoying their roles, in proper careers, thriving and pushing forward tend to be successful. And I've not seen anyone in roles like that give them up.

(implying that women that stay at home have no career to give up)

Do I need to continue????

Yes, because you still haven't enlightened me as to how my children have turned out differently with working parents, to how they would have turned out if I were unemployed!!

Er, trawling old posts is a bit creepy.