to think that sleeping through does not make a baby "good"?

[zombified]

First of all, I have a baby daughter. She is 4 months old. She is not sleeping through. And I am tired. So possibly IABU

BUT

It bugs me the way other parents say their baby is "good" or an "angel" etc because the baby sleeps through the night. Or they put it down to their excellent parenting/routine- not in so many words, but it is smugly implied.

This especially annoys me when the babies are formula fed or have a formula feed last thing at night. I have nothing against formula- but it does make babies sleep, so there's not much credit to be taken either by the parents or the baby on that count.

Whether a baby sleeps through or not does not make them good (or, by implication, bad). They are babies. They have no concept of sleeping through, they have no ability to be good or bad. They are just their lovely, innocent selves. Whether they sleep through or not.

My daughter has had the same routine since she was 8 weeks old, is in bed and asleep at 7pm every night, and her nights vary widely.I don't put it down to my parenting, whatever happens. And I certainly don't think she's "better" when she sleeps for longer. I'd love her to sleep for 12 hours a night for my own sake, but she wouldn't be any more of an angel if she did.

There's this obsession with sleeping through, as if it's not simply something which makes life easier for the parents, but is in fact the pinnacle of childrearing and a huge achievement for parent and child about which to crow endlessly.

YANBU

If sleeping through made babies 'good' then my DC would be evil incarnate. They clearly aren't.

DD started sleeping through (more or less) at around two, DS is just turned one and he still wakes 3 or 4 times a night...

After more than 2 1/2 years of continuous broken nights, I sometimes wonder if I'm going to go stark raving mad

Formula never made my baby sleep.

It's just a word - a phrase.

You're just I reckon!

As I would be in your shoes (and was when I was in your shoes)

"I have nothing against formula- but it does make babies sleep, so there's not much credit to be taken either by the parents or the baby on that count"

Isn't there? They administer the formula, dont they? Therefore according to you it was their decision and their action that caused their baby to sleep through - therefore they can most definitely take credit.

Except I disagree that formula fed means will sleep through - many will dispute this claim, in particular many parents of formula fed babies who most definitely do NOT sleep through.

YABU

I would add though, that a baby who doesn't sleep isnt "bad" nor is one who does necessarily "good" - but I know what they mean, it is good in general to get a full night's sleep, they are just relieved about that. No reason why they shouldnt' be pleased.

YANBU.

yanbu

Zombie, my dd 3.3 years still does not sleep through the night, 3 years of interrupted sleep and she was formula fed too, breast at first than formula when things went wrong. My dd must be devil incarnate, at the moment she is currently waking up at 5-6am thinks its time to play, despite the heavy blackout blind, and being woken up previously.

I am soooooooo tired

You will be flamed for your 'formula makes babies sleep' line, but YANBU in every other sense.
My 2 gorgeous boys have both been rubbish sleepers. I would probably be a more angelic mother if they had slept for 12 hours at 4 months, but they are no less fantastic!

I consider my baby 'good' for talking when she was 9 months and making conversation when she was a year old. Not because she slept or otherwise. As it happens she slept better when she was young and at 20 months she wake 2-4 times. Breastfed still, naturally, and bloody exasperating but not 'bad' and is a charming, intelligent human being.

Depends if your definition of humans is based on convenience

Clearly I am a bit

But still. Driven I think you hit the nail on the head with the "devil incarnate" bit.

I know one mum whose baby wakes every hour or so, poor woman. But she's being made to feel worse about it because people keep banging on about their "good babies" who sleep, and even calling her baby "naughty". The baby is a gorgeous, happy, lively little thing who, at six months, wouldn't know how to be naughty if his life depended on it.

No, and while I agree it's only a phrase I think it could be quite dangerous. To a sleep deprived mum at the end of her tether hearing her friends talking about their good babies could cause problems/

You wait until weaning starts, walking, talking - it all gets stupidly competitive sometimes!

FWIW, my DS was FF and he's only now beginning to sleep through (sometimes) at 21mths!

imo yabu

i would have preffered the 'good' baby. after 3 yrs of it!

x post zombie, that's it exactly
if you have PND / it's your first baby and you're surrounded by 'good' sleeping babies, yours doesn't sleep, well what does that make yours?

yanbu. Mine slept through from quite young, it was luck. And I didn't tell any of the other mums I knew for several weeks as I thought I'd be lynched.

"Depends if your definition of humans is based on convenience"- that's exactly what I'm trying to say!

The formula comment may have been ill-advised (and also not true, it would seem!)- was just trying to illustrate point that it's definitely not down to babies being "good" or otherwise. No offence intended, like I said I don't have a problem with formula and don't think anyone has a right to.

YABU. Formula does not make babies sleep through necessarily. Maybe for some it helps, but for others not. I am one of those women who has started to do formula in a desperate bid for some sleep. Regardless of good or bad or what, I do need some sleep for my own selfish reason, and should that happen any time soon, my DS will definitely be even more of an angel for doing so than he is now if he sleeps longer, so I can too.

I am so dog tired it is untrue. Yesterday, I celebrated the summer solstice, but physically witnessing the entire longest day of the year from the dawn chorus yesterday morning, til midnight or gone last night, then up this morning at dawn chorus (before).

YANBU when people ask me if DS (9mo) is "good" I say "Oh no he's terrible, he's broken curfew twice this week and drank all the vodka" .

He is however a good sleeper and I most definatly keep my mouth shut about it. We went to get him weighed at the clinic when he was 4 weeks old and I naively asked the HV if I should wake him for a feed as he was sleeping 8 hours a night. The glares from the women in the clinic taught me a valuable lesson.

YANBU I think it is just luck. I have two friends with breast fed babies who slept through around 6 or 7 weeks. DS1 was bf and slept through at around 9 months having as a newborn woken every hour and a half. DS2 is 4 weeks and bf and already starting to sleep for 5 or 6 hours at night so I imagine will start to sleep through much earlier. There is no difference in how they have been fed or treated. Just luck.

Glenda that's ace, I might pinch your line...

First off, sleeping through the night has very little to do with formula in my experience.

Right, down to it. I have to admit that I refer to babies that sleep through as "angel babies". It's not that I think less of babies that don't sleep through (How could I? Mine took forever to learn to sleep through and still have issues, but are of course wonderful). It's just that after years of sleep deprivation, and all the knock on effects that it has on health, relationships, and general quality of life, it becomes more than an issue of "making life easier".

To be honest, as well as the impact on the mental and physical health of the parents (the mother in particular), I think that the other issue is that babies don't actually do much. I was praised because my babies put on weight, and again, it's not as though I chose to have babies with good appetites, or did anything magical to make them breastfeed well. It's just that eating and sleeping are the only real topics of discussion, and everyone hopes that the parents are getting some rest, and the baby is thriving.

However, if someone is standing over your baby saying "Bad baby! Bad baby! No biscuit unless you sleep tonight!", then you are, of course, being very reasonable.

Mrstittlemouse* yes, a more eloquent post than mine, with a tad of humour that I just cannot muster these days. thank you.

yanbu.

I have twin boys. I ebf and had a 'bedtime routine' (bath story boob bed) from 6 weeks (more for my own sanity really - just needed to know ONE time of day when I knew what I was doing!

DT 1 first slept through (8pm - 5am at about 4b months. DT 2 not till 9 months!

(they're both angels too, of course )

When people used to ask "are they good babies - do they sleep well?" I'd always say - yes they're very good - and they don't always sleep well"

I think you need to take a chill pill, who gives a fuck........ none of this matters at all and I cannot undeerstand why you care.

I don't think YABU but having been there with DD2 who woke every 1.5 hours for the first 8 months, once she started sleeping better she became an all-round happier little soul and everything was easier, like someone said previously a full night's sleep is a good thing.

I know what you mean though about how good a baby is being benchmarked in terms of their sleep, it is very very irritating.