to think that sleeping through does not make a baby "good"?

[zombified]

First of all, I have a baby daughter. She is 4 months old. She is not sleeping through. And I am tired. So possibly IABU

BUT

It bugs me the way other parents say their baby is "good" or an "angel" etc because the baby sleeps through the night. Or they put it down to their excellent parenting/routine- not in so many words, but it is smugly implied.

This especially annoys me when the babies are formula fed or have a formula feed last thing at night. I have nothing against formula- but it does make babies sleep, so there's not much credit to be taken either by the parents or the baby on that count.

Whether a baby sleeps through or not does not make them good (or, by implication, bad). They are babies. They have no concept of sleeping through, they have no ability to be good or bad. They are just their lovely, innocent selves. Whether they sleep through or not.

My daughter has had the same routine since she was 8 weeks old, is in bed and asleep at 7pm every night, and her nights vary widely.I don't put it down to my parenting, whatever happens. And I certainly don't think she's "better" when she sleeps for longer. I'd love her to sleep for 12 hours a night for my own sake, but she wouldn't be any more of an angel if she did.

There's this obsession with sleeping through, as if it's not simply something which makes life easier for the parents, but is in fact the pinnacle of childrearing and a huge achievement for parent and child about which to crow endlessly.

My 12 week old exclusively breastfed baby is (just about) sleeping through. I'm really sorry but I think that's pretty angelic. Please can I be smug? Just while it lasts?
I think YABU and a bit

That's wonderful for you Renee- and I do know the feeling, my baby slept through at 2 months old for a few weeks. It rocks.

And of course I'd love to be getting a full night's sleep- who wouldn't? Hence my (name changed) username.

But my point is that it's not a act of good behaviour on your baby's part. It's just what's she doing right now (or forever, perhaps, if you're lucky). Fantastic for the parents, but it doesn't make a baby "a good baby".

I suppose it is just a turn of phrase, as others have said. Our babies are all good and angelic to us- that's the wonder of parents. I obv think my baby is an angel (pfb pfb), but for me personally it's nothing to do with whether she sleeps well or not.

YANBU.

I think this is especially true among the 'older' generation too.

zombified - I think all babies are angels, because I'm baby-mad.

(Mine are best, though, obviously).

Op you are over-reacting. "not in so many words, but it is smugly implied".
Not true. thats YOUR paranoia talking there. ds1 slept through quite early. didn't make any difference to him. sure did to me.
ds2 was hard work. very very difficult for me. nothing to do with being smug. sleeping through or not is just stating the facts.
its our own paranoia that makes us think its being said smugly.

I tired to post earlier, but YANBU

DS1 was a lovely HUNGRY baby he did not sleep thru till be was nearly 1. Thats how some babies are and there is fuck all you can do about it!

I remember nearly crying when NCT group babies were sleeping through at 8 weeks

It was only my "real" friends who shared how awful their nights were too. I fucking hate people who smugly boast about it, evcen now!!!!

People should have the grace to SHUT up and stop boasting

If I am lucky enough to have a baby that sleeps for long durations this Sept (note my non usage of the word "good sleeper") I will NOT boast about it!

oblomov I think you're right to some extent.

But I am always mindful of the fact that my friends who are having a really difficult time at night may be feeling oversensitive and down owing to sleep deprivation (my baby doesn't wake up that much- usually once a night, so I'm tired but not hideously sleep-deprived). I can't blame them for perhaps feeling a little paranoid.

So even when my lo was sleeping through I avoided banging on about it, avoided phrases like "angel baby" when talking about sleep. And I always make sure I comment on the (many) lovely things about their babies rather than bellowing "oh god! That must be awful! I would have upped and left by now! I'm so glad my baby is so easy!" as I've heard others do.

I just think there's an air of competition at times even amongst the nicest of parents, even about something as random as sleep which is just the luck of the draw, and it's not supportive. It's easy to forget how unravelled sleep deprivation can make you feel when you are getting a good night's kip; but it's just as easy to have a bit of sensitivity.

My BF DS is 4 months and sleeps through. We are effing lucky. It does not make him good, and babies who don't sleep through are not bad. We usually just keep quiet about it and expect to be clobbered in some other way instead. People say the daftest things to parents, half of them stupid and half of them insensitive.

YANBU. Express your milk and then have a small glass of wine with your lunch.

Can I ask why you'd express?

So you don't get alcohol in your breast milk. Or you could feed DS and then have the glass of wine. Or you could just say sod it, and have a glass anyway but then someone will pounce on you for drinking so I generally just pretend to toe the line.

zombi, well i am saddened thta mums are so competitive. if they are round 'ere, i am oblivious to it. i never harped on about what an easy sleeper ds1 was. but if asked i told the truth. i knew it had noubt to do with me.
and when i had ds2. i was the other end of the spectrum. begged for advice and just even to talk about it all with say my PNG mums. never took their comments about how their babaies were sleeeping, as offensive, never jealous, i never had any thoughts of those kind towards them. just wished them well.
this competitive parenting that i hear of. yuk. never experienced it myself.
poor you !!

Ah right. I drank in moderation in the early days and once she was weaned and was eating in quantity (around 12 months) I never watched units at all.

I did have a couple of bigger nights in thwe early days and did express, but I'm a bad expresser so found it was easier to just not go too mad.

Didn't know people avoided alcohol while feeding.

People just say it unthinkingly.

What they mean is 'good for their parents' or 'easy'.

If they mean 'good' as opposed to 'bad', then you are allowed to kick them from here to eternity for their stupidity.

Non-sleeping babies are great. Just wait for their personalities to really shine through. It is a gift to you and the baby.

We're supposed to! I just time it carefully and don't bother if it's likely to get into the milk, but I'm only talking a glass with dinner at weekends here anyway. The HVs here in Holland are so nuts we call them The Baby Police. I have protocols to follow for everything. I smile sweetly, nod in agreement, fill out the forms and then ignore everything.

My DD is now six months and has slept through since she was about 8 weeks. By all accounts my brother and i were similar. I therfore put it down very much to luck and possibly, good genes. I do not mention it unless people ask me and then if i do talk about it, i emphasis that we are very lucky. I also do not feel the need on facebook or anywhere else to refer to DD as my beautiful angel, gorgeous girl, little princess or any other such sick-inducing names. If people do tell me that she is pretty/cute etc etc i just say oh yes, she is a little cutie. That is not to say that she isn't the most impotant thing in DH's and my life, but just don't feel the need to tell everyone else that! In a way, I think eulogising about you child's good looks, sleeping through or any other characteristics is a bit like saying how great you are yourself; i personally wouldn't do it....

"good genes" [hmmm]

I've heard it all now.

When people asked me if my DCs were 'good for me', I always took it to mean in general - not just re. sleeping. So including feeding well, sleeping, not crying all day long etc etc.

Incidentally DD was bf and slept through from 4 months(ish), but was a nightmare all the waking day so would never have described her as good!

Well doris, what else would you call it?!? I did say that I thought luck was a bi part of it!

big

I would just like to say that this is the first thread I've ever been on where someone has described one of my posts as utter tosh. I'm thrilled.

yes, Puppy me too, is the first time i've had a . i feel i have arrived!

Glad to oblige, PM

YANBU

My 5m old is very good and thinks that sleeping for more than two hours in a go is worthy of a medal (or some milk at least).

My 2yr 5m old sleeps for 12 hours straight...... and today at least has been nothing like 'good'!!

YANBU - it seems to be luck to me!
DD never slept through. She still gets into bed with us in the early hours.
But as she was otherwise an easy baby after 2 months (when the screaming stopped) I consider myself lucky, rather than a wonderful parent (though of course I am - ish)

Agree re GOOD/BAD labels.

Babies are random - that was my motto

YANBU but I think its naive to think that daytime routine, and impact of routine and parenting has no impact of night time sleeping. Babies need to be guided towards sleeping all night, I use combo of sleep fairy/GF for daytime routine.

BTW DS2 is EBF, and now 9 weeks, sleeps through roughly half the time. Yes I say he's a good baby, but more because he's very calm and can settle himself to sleep when tired, hence doesn't really cry than because he sleeps well at night time.