To feel annoyed trees were cut down to print this anti-breastfeeding article

[cherrymama]

In the latest edition of Mother and Baby magazine (I bought it for the free gift) the deputy editor has an article about breastfeeding. In it she says that she "couldn't be fagged" to breastfeed and that breastfeeding her newborn using breasts that had previously been used for sex would feel "creepy". And that even the health benefits of breastfeeding "wouldn't induce her to stick her nipple in her bawling baby's mouth."

I think her attitude is horrible! I understand many people try to breastfeed and don't manage, but to say that it is creepy is another thing.

this sort of thing used to really bother me. But then you realise the multitude of things that mothers choose to do or not, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest it is not an either/or situation. Yes, there are health benefits to BFing, but on balance they are small.
Incidentally US BFing rates are not low at all, I think the rates are higher at 6 months than in the UK.
I BF until 17 months, btw, but if I had another child I really doubt I'd do it longer than a few months.
to each their own. We have lots of "unnatural" choices as women. My favourite example being birth control. It is not our natural state to keep our bodies from getting pregnant but most of us are happy to take advantage of that medical advance.

It would cost billions to give women the support they really need whilst establishing BF. It is far cheaper to give a threadbare network of help and for women to to FF by 3 weeks.

I know because I was one of those women. I failed to BF DS1 and for years I was hurt and angry. I blamed myself.

Now, thanks to Mumsnet I successfully BF DS2 for well over a year. I also learnt that it was not my fault that I couldn't BF my first child but the complete lack of help at the hospital.

Sorry but from the way she describes her experience it sounds to me as though ticktockclocks is one of the 2% or whatever the figure is of women who physically cannot breastfeed. I can think of 2 other mumsnetters who had the same experience where the milk simply did not come in.

I thought that in those cases no amount of support could change anything?

Ticktockclocks experience does sound upsetting. However, I have never (and don't know anybody who would) judge someone who FFs. I do think it is a shame that they didn't get to experience something that can be quite lovely.

I had a lactation specialist come to see me in the hospital everyday of the three days that I was there and spend 5 hours with me on the first day and then 4 hours on each consecutive day. I had midwives all giving their advice and 'opinions'. The lacatation consultant even said, nope ther ain't nothing coming out you need to feed your baby. My baby was 5 weeks early by emcs I was told by several consultants the combination of the early arrival and the emcs were the reason nothing came. I did not require 'extensive tests'. I was able to feed my tiny 4 pound baby formula and keep her alive! Thank Goodness!!!!!!!

When my milk came it came with a vengence! I bf for about 6-7 weeks, including pumping like a madwoman when I was not ill. It was not for me, the hormones that brought the milk exasperated my migraines ten fold and I was in agony and vomiting everyday, on massive amounts of my migriane medication, combined with the wonderful gallstones that I accumulated and that attacked my body after having my child. I spent every second week in the hospital in a hellish state on copious amounts of morphine feeling like I was going to die. Certainly in no state to bf. I am glad that there is formula and I should not have to explain to you or anyone why I ff.

I am no less of a woman or a mother, I have a healthy happy DD who thrived and I think that anyone who bashes on and on about bf should really consider that we are all mothers and do our very best.

Nuff said, must finish my work and stop fighting this corner.

Going only on what ticktock has posted, obviously I know nothing of her life, am only commenting on what she has typed here.

She said that no baby can go for 9 days without food. So obviously baby was being fed formula well before the 9 day mark. If the breasts are not stimulated by a hungry baby early on, over and over again then they may well not produce milk because the body will assume the baby has died. I can't get any milk with a pump until around a month after birth and even then I get a dribble at best - it takes me about an hour of pumping both sides to get about 60mls.

ticktock may well be in that 2%, I have no idea. But it is 2% the FF rate is waaaaaaay over that.

"I am no less of a woman or a mother" nobody has claimed otherwise.

You don't have to explain to me ticktock, I have to admit my interest in the BF/FF thing is mostly just that interest. As I said I don't judge/blame mothers for FF rates, I put it all on the corporations that saw fit to fuck with people's heads to such an extent that many people believe that FF is better than BF and made BF something weird and "creepy".

hopeforbest,I read that article.there are plently of contradictory articles,and there is also common sense.Obviously our own milk is best for our babies because it has evolved over millennia to fill the specific needs of human primates.Soya based formula has been around for 100 years at a guess? Also,as the article does state,we live in a state of glory in the West,where our babies can catch a gastro intestinal illness and be in hospital,on a drip,on antibiotics,whatever it takes,that baby is highly unlikely to die,but in the third world the opposite is true-and how can you make safe formula milk without safe water?Without any way of sterilising bottles? Babies are dying every day because of formula,just not our babies,so thats ok then,our right to choose.When we present formula as a reasonable choice for aesthetic reasons,we are buying into something that can kill another womans baby,on the other side of the world.I think it is every woman's duty to try and feed her baby,and should be her right to get support in doing that and sympathy if she really fails or has another medical reason not to feed.

Ah, tiktockclocks so your milk did come in after 9 days? Sorry, I misread you post as it not coming in at all. What a bloody awful situation for you to be in, especially on top of a premature birth and an EMCS.

Oh and thanks to the wonderful NHS waiting lists I was waiting for surgery for 15 months for my gallstones, I was in the A&E of my local hospital so often I knew everyone who worked in there on every shift and they all knew me and would just wave me on in when I showed up again and again in a writhing ball of pain.

So before anyone says anything and judges you try bf'ing in this state and bloody good luck to you.

Ok really going now.

But nobody has judged you. However, the journalist from Mother and Baby felt free to judge breastfeeding.

i see this thrad has gone the way of all BF threads...

never mind - my tuppence anyway!

if she'd written an article saying formula was 'creepy' there'd be an outcry.

it isn't acceptable for a journalist (fine say it in your own private space.).

powerful vested interests push formula on people - always bear that in mind whilst reading this drivel.

ticktock,I don't see how anyone could judge you harshly in your situation, that is quite different from the woman writing the article,who wanted her "funbags"for her husband alone and hoped they would remain un-droopy and honeymoon fresh if she didn't bf.

I don't know about anyone else ticktock but I am not judging you. I think it sounds like you had a shit time and did the best you could in your circumstances.

That doesn't change the fact that formula was created to sell excess cow's milk and that it is an inferior food for babies compared to human milk.

Would love to know what you might consider my motive for arguing "this" corner?

Morloth why don't you just tell us your motive?

I don't mean that sarcastically, but, you know, just tell us instead of asking us to tell you.

ticktockclock You don't need to explain/defend yourself. People were annoyed by the wording of the article, not attacking you for not breastfeeding.

My baby was also born early at 35 by caesarian (because of pre eclampsia and IUGR), he was put on formula straight away in SCBU where he stayed for 2 weeks (the hospital didn't have a breast milk bank) but I was determined to breastfeed - I expressed colostrum by hand into a syringe until my milk came in and I could use the hospital pump. I pumped around the clock and we gradually got my son off the tube/formula and onto breastmilk. It is possible even in the most adverse circumstances, so I think 99 times out of 100 if the will is there, then you will overcome any obstacles.

People need to be honest though about how hard it is in the beginning. If they stopped with the "it doesn't hurt if you do it right" bullshit and admitted the first 3-4 weeks are horrible and your nipples will be really sore but then it all comes together then more people would persist. I think they just think it is going to be like that forever. No healthcare professional told me about cluster feeding or the pain. If it hadn't been for internet friends' advice + experience I'd have been sure I was doing it all wrong and the baby wasn't getting enough as he was sucking all the time.

I would miss breastfeeding like hell if I couldn't do it. I love the relaxing feeling you get with the let down and seeing his little face looking up at me so calm and happy is just wonderful. I'd do it even if the health benefits weren't proven because it is a wonderful bonding experience. I pity those that don't have it. I pity the silly woman who wrote that article.

This was the first - and last - copy of M&B I have ever bought.

Whilst I respect that some people choose to FF for various reasons, this article has infuriated me. There is a perception of BF as "weird" and articles like this, in supposedly respectable magazines, will do nothing to disprove this. We have breasts to produce milk with to feed our off spring, that is why they are on our bodies, not to purely provide pleasure or for people to enjoy staring at.

And as for the "It provides support for formula feeders" statement, considering formula is published in every magazine, as adverts on the TV, and the accepted sign for a feeding room is a bottle, I don't think its formula that needs to be normalised, tbh.

Arf at the confusing ticktock/tiktok issue...

TheCrackFox - breastfeeding is quite lovely I agree. I have 3 kids.

But first, I had to get past that first stage - call it 'creepy' if you like - my breasts, previous to breastfeeding, were only familiar with the sexual act. So, I pushed though and got past the 'creepy' stage to a place where I could integrate their dual function. I found I could enjoy both.

"Creepy" is a transitional stage that you push through.

The question was in response to how there is BF propaganda. Propaganda implies motives in getting someone to do something that isn't great.

Propaganda doesn't mean that to me, but each to their own.

I'm just interested in your motivation because you seem very forthright on the subject - as far as I can tell you think formula companies are underhand and exploitative and want to spread that message. Nothing wrong with that, and I don't disagree with you.

And just because you don't have anything to gain financially, it doesn't mean you have nothing to gain by putting forward that view.

I guess I just fundamentally disagree that someone who is pro-bfing has nothing to gain by increasing b/feeding rates just because there is no financial incenitve in it for them.

I think most big corporations are underhand and exploitative and I think that because I have worked in/with them for a long time - they are made up of good people who everyday do little things that add up to great evils.

I am forthright tonight because the kids went to bed early, DH is working late and I have had a glass of rose. I tend to get into an argument on MN under those circumstances.

I tend to think in dollar signs because of all the years I spent in aforesaid corporations. There would be the feel good factor in helping someone BF and I would assume that some people get off on making others feel bad. But it still can't compare with those dollar signs IMO.