To feel annoyed trees were cut down to print this anti-breastfeeding article

[cherrymama]

In the latest edition of Mother and Baby magazine (I bought it for the free gift) the deputy editor has an article about breastfeeding. In it she says that she "couldn't be fagged" to breastfeed and that breastfeeding her newborn using breasts that had previously been used for sex would feel "creepy". And that even the health benefits of breastfeeding "wouldn't induce her to stick her nipple in her bawling baby's mouth."

I think her attitude is horrible! I understand many people try to breastfeed and don't manage, but to say that it is creepy is another thing.

Desanimaum,read "the politics of breastfeeding" and then tell all here about the excellence of formula.In fact I suggest everyone pregnant reads it.Can't imagine anyone afterwards would choose formula unless they had a really serious reason not to bf.And I will believe that Bf isn't marginalised and formula treated as the norm the day I see a feeding room with a breast feeding baby as the symbol,rather than yet another bottle.

desanimaux - I come from a research background. I can read a paper, and I know the different types of evidence there is to support breastfeeding as something that has an important public health effect. There is a large amount of good, solid literature on the health outcomes of infant feeding, and the good, solid stuff controls for the variables that are (as you say) present in every study.

if you want to contact the journaist who wrote the article it's kathryn.blundell at bauermedia dot co dot uk

I understood all research into bfing factors in/out other things. So class, famaily status etc are taken into account.

Yes I have brought up E-coli as a parallel it is not desperate it is to explain that both things are naturally occuring but we live in an avanced society where we have scientists that can create things in the lab to help people out such as formula, drugs, etc.

tiktok what you said is ff is not without risks in one breath preceded by not wanting ff mothers to feel bad in another breath. This is a total and complete contradiction.

FF does not have health risks!! This is not honest mature information sharing. This is scaremongering at it's best.

FF and BF do have the same outcomes when circumtances require a happy, healthy mother and baby and you are the one that is mis-alinged for saying otherwise. Once again how very judgemental of you. How dare you imply that your bf child will have a better 'outcome' than my or anyone else's ff child.

Morloth - what do you mean by this?

"So what happens to the babies who don't live in countries with clean water? Don't they matter?"

I am well aware of the problems that have been caused by the manufacturers of formula milk in other countries, thank you, but are you seriously saying that nobody in the UK should use formula because of that? What is the alternative?
Are you suggesting that everyone who buys formula milk should feel guilty about the ethics of the company that produces it? To go for the emotive example, someone who has had a mastectomy?
I don't use formula so don't know who makes the different brands. If I do go on to use it, I would like to use an "ethical" brand if one is available, which I'm sure many would.
A more helpful attitude would be to say, please use XXX formula as the company which produces it has not behaved unethically in developing countries, rather than to go for the "every £1 you spend on formula is a dead baby in a developing country" approach, which I think is really mean when lots of women feel guilty anyway for using formula. Apologies if that isn't what you meant, but it's comments like that that make folk mutter about "breast fascists".

Desanimaux I come from a healthcare research background too, and the beneficial claims made for breastfeeding you're discussing have been comprehensively backed up by research. Huge studies of tens of thousands of people funded by the UN amongst others, then epidemiologists use statistics to discount as many other factors as they can so they are sure to a 95 per cent probability that the differences they are seeing are due to bottle verses breast. You can legitimately argue against the tone of the message if you dislike it, but I'm afraid the actual content of the message is beyond dispute. And to be honest by arguing against the tone it just sounds like shooting the messanger. To say breast and bottle are equally good would be plain untrue, even if you were just saying it to make someone feel better.

SoLongAsItsHealthy, you have not read the whole sentence otherwise you would know the essence of the statement is that these people then look down on those who choose not to breast feed. They should just say what they mean and not pretend to believe something they don't.

I have no objections to the terms 'bottle feeding brigade' or 'breast feeding brigade' but perhaps that's becuase I truly respect peoples right to choice so feel no need to align myself with either group.

My mother breast feed me and I am fit, healthy and intelligent when apparently I should be fat and thick according to some breastfeeding supporters?! The same applies to my husband who is very healthy and got a first at a red brick university.

I'm sorry but all the alleged negatives given about formula feeding can be attributed to lifestyle, family upbringing and education.

Meant to say before - it is a bit pathetic that we have the kind of society that goes "ooer tits!" over default mammal feeding equipment being used for that purpose. Maybe the feeding signs could be a boob and a bottle. I might open a baby friendly pub called the Boob and Bottle. Yes. I'll go away now.

ticktockclock - think about it. Breastfeeding is the normal (physiological) way to feed a baby. The research supports it as more appropriate than the alternative, which in most situations today is formula milk (as opposed to bread and water or gruel or asses milk straight from the ass or whatever else has been used historically). The health outcomes of breastfed and formula fed babies are (to no one's great surprise, surely) different, and on conditions such as gastro-enteritis, chest infections, ear infections (to take just a few), formula fed babies are more likely to have these conditions - because of the formula, not because of their background, genetic history or anything else, as these aspects are controlled for in the studies.

You cannot predict (as I have to keep saying) that formula fed baby A will get more ear infections than breastfed baby B, because the research cannot be applied in this predictive way to an individual. But this does not undermine the evidence - formula feeding has risks, and it is not controversial to say so! I'm surprised you are so taken aback. If breastfeeding has 'benefits' and produces better health outcomes (compared to formula feeding), then babies who are not breastfed risk worse health outcomes (compared to breastfeeding).

This is not the same as saying to an individual formula feeding mother, 'Hey! Your baby is at risk!'

Sorry, what I am saying about the negative effect on formula feeding is that they can ALSO be attributed to lifestyle, family upbringing and education.

Can anyone please tell me in which issue of Mother and Baby this article is in?

Squiglet - of course you are right that things like intelligence, health, obesity are very closely linked to background, family, genetics and so on.

This is why the studies control for these factors.

Obesity is a case in point - there is clearly a link between formula feeding and obesity, as there are many epidemiological studies that show it, in many countries.

But we need to make sure things like the obesity of the parents and the social and economic status of the family are accounted for first, before you can say 'cause and effect'. Some studies do this well, others do not. So in my view, having looked at the evidence, I think we don't know enough to say formula is a direct cause of obesity. It looks like it has a contributing effect - if you combine risk factors for obesity and then add formula feeding to the list, you increase the risk. Breastfeeding appears to be protective, so even if you have the other risk factors, breastfeeding reduces their effect.

The stuff on infections and frank illness and the links with infant feeding is much clearer - it's cause and effect, and this is well-established.

Depending on your newsagents, "latest" could be June or July. At airports, they sell August issues of magazines at the end of June!

Chuck - glad you posted and clarified

I think ticktockclock has a problem with irony but surely not any more now you have explained!

Ooh some mentioned the bf brigade again. Do you get a uniform and a drum? There is no such thing! There are people who beleive that bf is best for babies and want to promote it. Why is that so odd or unreasonable? Some things are the ideal solution for babies - not the only but the ideal. So why does no one go on about the 'late weaning' brigade for example?

ChuckBartowski I understand that you were being ironic however I found the use of the statement ff is poison highly distasteful and hurtful to mother's who ff even if it was for the purpose of irony just as most people on here would find the use of an ironic statement saying bf was poison just as distasteful and hurtful.

Blanket statements are so unfair and not sensitive or intelligent in anyway and they are made again and again with people assuming they know the case of each and every mother.

A mother that is going through chemotherapy for instance that ff her baby. That baby is better off with formula than bm.

A mother that has no breasts due to a mastectomy cannot physically feed a baby in any way, but she is alive to feed a baby formula. Formula is better in this case.

A mother that has had a breast reduction and cannot get an breast milk out of said breasts. FM is better for that baby.

There are many, many, many more examples such as these where formula is the best option.

Once again the intelligent answer is that BM is best in some circumstances.

The people that keep arguing this point over and over have no respect or sensitivity to mothers that ff.

I've been following this thread. I'm in neither camp.

@TickTock, Why are you taking it upon yourself to give a lectures on breast feeding?

animation - do you mean me?

I dunno why.

I thought I was answering questions, sharing information, engaging in debate.

Can you give me an example of where I have 'given a lecture' instead?

Obviously I will stop straight away!

I am not giving any lectures in bf. If anyone is giving the lectures it is tiktok.

I only believe in choice, either way and being supportive of choice.

Arbiter of offensiveness?? I have said nothing negative about bf at all, perhaps my threads need to be read. I have only ever supported women and what decision they feel is best for them, their children, their families.

I am sick and tired or women who ff being attacked, demoralised and admonished for expressing their feelings or having to explain their very personal situations to defend their decision to do the best that they can.

No wonder this world is so messed up.

oops should be 'of women' overly fast fingers with ten other things going on.