to try to find a full time out of the house job asap so I don't have to entertain my two DSs alone for 8 weeks over the summer?

[livethedream]

They are nearly 2 and nearly 4. DS is usually at playgroup 5 mornings awake but it's a training day today so they're both at home together.

Oh my god, they fight. It is so tedious, I am just constantly refereeing between them - no matter what games/activities I set up, they bicker and argue and physically hurt each other. DS1 sneakily tries to hit his brother or tread on his toes whereas DS2 retaliates by biting him so hard it nearly breaks the skin.

There will be 8 weeks between DS1 finishing playgroup and starting school. If we were minted and DH didn't work we could have a lovely time. But here in the real world it's just me and I'm skint and it's going to be a real struggle to think of somethign free to do every single day for 8 weeks. That's 56 days.

I have no idea if I could find a job that would pay enough to put them both with a childminder all summer but my god, I woudl probably run at a loss to get out of 8 whole weeks of these two.

Does this make m e a terrible mother? My mother thinks I should savour every second as these are the best years ever, which I find a bit demoralising. (And it rankles, as she ran off when me and my brother were this age!)

my advice: exercise them

children are like dogs - they need regular walks otherwise they get bored, and boredom = fighting.

at that age they don't really mind doing the same things every day (dog walk, then park, then a bit of calming cbeebies...supermarket/ B&Q in the afternoon,.....)

i can also sympathise with your OP, as mine are going through a particularly annoying stage ('no'!!!) and i can't wait for nursery to start in september...

either that or get a job and make it someone elses problem.

Thank you to everyone for the practical advice and support - it's nice to know that it isn't just me!

MrsWobble..., thank you
I don't think I'd make a good HE; also, we have chosen the school for the DTs and are very happy with the standard of education and care the school in question offers. I'm dreading, well, am sad, slightly, them growing up so quickly. However, 'tiz life and I'm doing my best to make the most of if while they are still little.

foureleven, you nailed it. Clever girl[pats back]. Off you go now.

Being at home is the harder option but more beneficial to their growing up

Well that quite simply isnt true. For some, eg rollmops, staying home is easier because it comes naturally. There is also no evidence to show it is beneficial to their growing up.

It might be best for your family to stay at home but if you expect your children to grow up any better because you were at home I think you're setting yourself up for a fall.

foureleven, if you believe that other people are better in raising your children than you, then something is deeply wrong.

Only a generation or so ago raising children was a much more communal affair - it isn't natural or healthy to make parenting a one person job. Children used to be cared for by extended family, neighbours and friends and mothers weren't left in isolation to do it all by themselves.

Ds is 3, I am dreading the Summer holidays a bit too. I am pregnant and will be almost due by the time he goes back and am already knackered and suffering on hot days. It doesnt make me a bad parent, it makes me honest and ime, normal.

I love ds to death and I am dreading him starting school in another year and have been seriously considering HE (dh dead against it) or keeping him back a year but I think he'll love it so no doubt he will start next year.

Is there way you could afford a week of summer activity classes? Even just for the 4 year old? Ds is going to a Arts course every morning for a week - costs £30 or £20 if youre in receipt of benefits.

Really rollmops, How so? Have you met many people who agree with you there?

Although, re reading your post I agree - I am better at 'raising' my children than anyone else of course, I am their mum. But we're not talking about raising them are we..? Does 'raising' mean being with them all day?

Does your husband/DP work? If so, is he not raising your children? Are you doing it alone because you are the one at home?

I am happy to accept that my children are better off with me at home with them if you can provide one single piece of evidence to back up your theory.

Also, In what measurable areas do you believe your children will be bette roff for you being at home with them? I am interested to understand.

Do you expect them to get better exam results? Be better at sport? Have more friends? Have better realtionships?

I expect they'll be better at patronising people.

I expect they'll be better at patronising people.

Could you define 'raising children' please, four...., what does it meant to you.
[awaiting with baited breath]

I hope my kids will be better at irony, argument and pedantry. Given their parentage, these things will probably not require any effort to ingrain upon their little souls. I swear DS was sucking his milk sarcastically the other day...

though 'unsual things for you to wish your kids to excel at' would be a whole different thread.

[naughty giggle at livethedreams sarcasm emoticon]

I just feel for people who spend 3,4,5 - 16 years dedicating every minute to their children expecting some kind of fabulous product at the end of it only to find that their children have the same flaws and success as everyone elses children.

I have honestly never spoken to an adult who's mum didnt stay at home when they were small complaining of any kind area that they are lacking in as a result.

rollmops... goodness what a question for one post!
Maybe bullet points so as not to turn in to war and peace..

• providing a safe, warm environment for them at all times where they are accepted and loved for who they are.
• teaching them right from wrong, manners and a strong work ethic through example.
• celebrate their acheivements and commiserate with them in their failures.
• Feed and cloth them.
• Challenge them and help them to know their own mind through advising them but allowing them to make mistakes.
• Teach them to be confident and love themselves, again through example.
• Teach them, gently, that they are not the most important thing in the world. But that they are to you.

Umm, I think thats everything...

Hey, just realised you ignored all of my questions and asked me one in response

I shall assume you have no come back then to - which areas you expect your kids to be better in as they grow up...

YANBU, I dreaded the summer holidays last year, and don't have much shame in saying so; my husband is ill a lot and much as I love my son, I have always found parenthood hard work. All you can do is work out what makes it easier for you - being outside is the key for me, and thank goodness in the summer that's actually feasible (could grandparents buy you some decent summer waterproofs though?) I dread a lot of things, I'm quite a fearful person. What I can say is that it was much, much better than I expected . It certainly helped for me to think about it beforehand. It was fun having some massively overscheduled days seeing lots of local friends, but the best days of all were the ones where we did practically nothing. Because there is no time pressure in the holidays, a trip to the library can take practically the whole day. I'll admit ds probably watched a LOT of dvds, I think he watched prob a whole film every day which adds up. But what the hell.

You have one enormous silver lining IMO which is that, enormously tough though it may be doing this solo, you won't have a huffy other parent appearing and casting nasturtiums on the state of the house... so if you don't want to tidy up, don't. It's your holiday too.

My summer holiday top moments would be:

1. Popcorn heals many wounds.

1. So do fruit juice lollies - have you got some moulds? It's amazing how excited small ones get over what is effectively a glass of juice in another form. OK,I admit it, I love them too.

1. Don't forget that you can swim in rivers and streams - if beaches, splash park, outdoor pool or whatever are inaccessible or expensive, find a stream, get into your swimmies and build dams, 'fish' with a stick and string, throw stones and build stone villages on the bank.

1. No more than one ice cream a day. That way, you can spend the whole day building up to it

livethedream - if you want to get a job because being a SAHM has come to the end of its natural term for you, then you should go for it.

However, if you'res eriously doing it to avoid the summer holidays, then be kind to yourself. Realise that not every day will be fun, fun, fun. That's okay. Eight weeks is a long time.
Think of some stuff you can do to fill your time and my advice, would be to spend as much time out of doors as possible.

Head to the parks in your area. Take food and drink and stay as long as you can. I have spent entire days if the kids are happy. In fact I refuse to leave until they start to whinge or there's a hailstorm.

Head to the library. Spend an hour looking at all the books then take out millions. Also story tapes - many libraries have tons of them. Stick one on while the kids are playing and it seems to diffuse the bickering.
Check out local toy libraries too.

See if your local pool is doing free holiday swims. Spend many hours in the pool and in the showers after. Then an hour in the cafe with a hot chocolate.

Invite many folk over with their kids. They will reciprocate.

four...., "..In what measurable areas do you believe your children will be bette roff for you being at home with them? I am interested to understand... "
This is so old and done to death nonsense, I won't bother answering.
The threads SH Mums vs. working Mums are absolutely pointless in every way.
We all do our best for our children, or so I'd like to believe.

This thread was not about SAHM vs WM, but spending the whole 8 weeks with children.

Some people find spending enormously long stretches of time with two annoying little kids (whom they love) difficult - it doesn't make them bad people. I wouldn't even want to be with my husband 24/7 for 8 weeks. Back to the original question - I used to find the first two weeks of summer holiday hell on earth, but somehow we got a routine going by third week and then it became fun. Getting together with other mums with kids was key.

I see a pattern here, from what you said about your mother leaving you and your brother when you were so young too.
You have not been given the proper upbringing and teaching that most other people get if their mothers stay with them.
I agree with most that you need to get your DC's behaviour sorted. They need to bond more with eachother.
But you need to learn how to cope with them now or it will get much worse.

I clicked on this thread thinking some people might have come up with some nice, original and constructive suggestions for helping a mum enjoy the summer holidays. Which are very long. And can be very tedious with two small children who are bickering a lot.

Am amazed at the complete lack of understanding shown by several posters. Haven't we all been there?!?!?!?

OP - I know where you're coming from. I'm not convinced that escaping to work is the answer, but if you genuinely think all three of you would be happier, by all means look into it.

Beyond that, pour yourself a glass of wine and get yourself a plan of campaign. What is going on locally that the boys would enjoy? What day trips could you do? Get on the web and look for special events in your area to give you all a bit of variety.

And get them outside every day and make sure they run around for at least an hour - it helps! Can you meet up with anyone to spread the load - any nursery friends? Even if they haven't asked, they will probably appreciate the idea. You need to get out of the house, space out the treats and make sure you've got something to look forward to.

And book in some time for yourself, come hell or high water, any way you can mange it.

And ignore your mum - this is NOT the easiest time. They might be cute, but two and four year olds need a lot of input. When the eldest is at school, the summer holidays will be shorter and you'll appreciate them more as being a break from the early morning routine. The summer holiday prior to starting school is hard because it's an epic length, but it looks up after that.

That's my experience, anyway.

Hi Op - just wanted to show my support for you and let you know I know exactly how you feel. Luckily, I now work and OH is a SAHD and this works better for all concerned. The children get to see the best of me and not the screaming, impatient harridan I once was. Full time parenting is not for everyone and people should respect that.