to be unsure if I should report friend to SS?

[custardismyhamster]

Friend is 23, has dyspraxia (and other things I think as have read up on dyspraxia and it's just difficulties with co-ordination if I'm right, so she may not run as well as others etc)

She has a DD, 8 months.

Her DD is not cared for very well and I am worried. Whenever I visit her DD is passed to me and I end up caring for her. If I don't, she gets ignored-so today she was sat on floor playing with a toy, she fell and banged her head (was fine!) and cried so I left it for a few minutes, my friend ignored her so I picked her up, cuddled her, then distracted with funny faces-her DD laughed and forgot about her fall bless her.

Anyway the little girl doesn't seem to ever be properly clean (not as in oh she has baby food on her clothes-she is a baby they get messy! but as in she stinks-literally after clean nappy on etc, her hair FEELS greasy and she smells. She also has terrible exema and cream from gp, friend doesnt put it on her as 'makes my hands feel greasy')

She is also never spoken to, or interacted with by my friend, at least not when I am there.

Friend never seems to buy her anything she needs-had no cot until about 7 months old etc, but yet can afford pauls boutique bags and mac makeup for herself...hmm.

AND friend told me today that to make money (she doesn't work, but lives at home with her mother, who does work and she isn't paying any board even) that she is sleeping with men for money-in her house, in front of her DD.

This has worried me and I feel it's the final straw-should I now as a concerned onlooker be speaking to social services or similar, as am concerned about little girls welfare?

Any advice really appreciated guys as don't know what to do for the best but don't want little girl to suffer

Alt, i wasn't saying thta you shouldn't follow up.
You seem to be missing my point. I must not be explaining myself very well.
I must log off now. I have to leave to pick up ds 1 and 2.

Oblomov I know what you're saying.

That "better safe than sorry" has got a bit out of hand and that in some circs professionals seem to be referring people with no real justification for doing so. Thus wasting SS time, and putting loads of families through a nightmare that they don't deserve.

"Better safe than sorry", at its ultimate conclusion, means every family being regularly assessed by SS. Which would be ridiculous. At the moment the pendulum seems to have swung too far in the direction of over-caution, while at the same time people who really are abusing their children seem to slip through the net. Maybe if there were less "better safe than sorry" accusations for the SW to follow up, they would have more time to investigate referrals which are justified.

This is
Rubbish
op
loopy
loo.

Your story is grim, Altinkum. I'm glad that you found your vocation now, at least.

Has your DD got ITP? I bet you get tired of explaining the bruises, as do I.

altinkum, i really admire you for going through such horror and out the other side. the world needs more people like you.

op i think you should at the very least contact the HV.

Oblomov thank you.

The SS involvement was the most upsetting thing I have ever had to deal with short of dd almost dying. Which did happen a few times.

And that was the hospital's fault too but it's a complaint which will never see the light of day now that they have set SS on us and will do again.

We decided to NOT make a complaint at the time because oh, it's tax-payers money and all that, and we settled for "retraining" of the person nearly killed our dd by saying that nobody was on call to treat her.

Thanks guys. I am finishing work early tomorrow and going to come home and ring SS I think. Going by the theory that I can tell them my suspicions and hope I speak to someone like Altinkum who does their job really well like she sounds to-and who will investigate and discount if they don't feel there is any problem, or help her in whatever way they can

Thanks for all the advice everyone and I will let you know how I get on

custard is my hamster - what a mighty blog you have created, your ears must be glowing a little red.

I've read through the number of posts replied to your principle query; 'unsure to report a friend to the ss'

I am not entirely sure that you are infact friends with this young and vulnerable mother, alone during the day with her 8 month DD at the age of 23, who's position is such that she must live with her own mother in order to provide a roof over both their heads, probably without any support from the father.

Who makes the tea when you visit your friend? If its mum, then surely its reasonable for her to expect you to watch over her DD whilst she does that? Its also possible she might be so delighted to have the opportunity to talk to someone which, frankly for a mother of an 8 month baby means less overt attention being paid to the DD. When do you turn up to visit? Is it possible that it might be just before bath time? or just before DD needs the next application of cream?
Is it possible that your friend does not reciprocate your friendship, but rather sees you as a threat - perhaps even as an antagonist colluding with a disenchated absent father? If that might be the case, would it be possible that she might suggest the despair of being driven to prostitution as a desperate plea or provocation to understand your true motivations in your suspicious friendly visits?
Why don't you visit when grandma is home? Is it possible you know that a grandmother has a good eye for a good egg or a bad egg?
Your initial query, is of course sound, and deserves the attention accorded, however in your own responses, I have seen nothing in the spirit of your words that offer genuine authenticity in freindship and concern to the young mother or her DD you discuss, only satisfied justification to custard stirr. Be very weary of what you are attempting to achieve and for what reasons. Glad you are not my friend, hey but let me know when you have a baby, i'll drop by and expect perfection on each unanounced inspection - of course all because I care. WARNING Don't expect me to talk to you about my concerns - I'll blog to over a hundred people first, show the responses to everyone who knows you to check whether I should make a report and then report you anyway - of course because, irrespective of the fact you might have enough on your plate as it is, it will prove to be the best thing for you in then end and for your DD/DS!

IMO the original post indicates that the child is at risk of physical neglect aswell as emotional neglect and emotional abuse. In light of all the inquiries into child deaths I think that it would be responsible if the original poster made an initial referral to social services. "Its Everyones Job to Make Sure Im Alright" (2002) highlights that it is not only professionals who are responsible for the care and protection of children, but the general public too. IMO adults should trust their instincts - if you suspect that a child is being in any way abused or neglected, then it is likely that you are correct. of course there are times when adults will make mistakes and when innocent families ar investigated. However, in most cases families subject to child protection investigations are in need of some form of support. Social services do not take children away on a whim - social workers need to evidence that the child or children are at risk of harm/abuse/significant neglect. IMO social services increasingly work with families in order to allow them to remain together. Removing children is a last resort, but unfortunately it is sometimes necessary to remove children from their families so that their needs can be met. IMO social workers work hard to balance risks to avoid removing children. In most cases social workers work with children and their families within the home. More work is generated for workers when they remove children from their homes - it is not an easy option for workers at all and is not done to save workers time or hassle, but to protect children.

IMO the mother in this particular case does seem to be in need of support but as altinkim has highlighted the child's needs are paramount and in this particular case, many of the childs needs do not appear to be met. Yes it can be very stressful for a parent to find themselves being interviwed by social workers. Yes it can cause alot of upset within families. However, IMO, the benefits to children who live in dangerous and neglectful environments far outweigh the stress caused to parents. IMO most decent social workers will try to empathise with parents and to see it from their point of view. Of course there are bad workers, but the same could be said for every profession.

I am quite new to MN and have recently started to post more and reply to threads. Having read this entire thread I am quite shocked by how personal some posters can be. I know that social services is a subject which many people feel passionate about but surely posters should feel able to make comments without feeling that they may be personally attacked.

noodlemaker, anyone who told someone they suspected of colluding with a disenchanted absent father that they were being a prostitute would have to be stark raving mad.

And the mother apparently said she doesn't put the cream on 'because it makes her hands feel greasy'.

Custard apparently was there when the grandmother was, she said grandmother was caring for the child (which also means to be fair that the mother is getting some support, even if not from the father)

Whether or not custard should report her to SS (I don't know; I have no experience of SS and haven't lived in the UK for a while) I can't see the justification for your post.

agree with desert that noodles comment about the prositution is far too harsh. but i did thik thta noodle made some valid points. lets not pretend that the women is a freind of OP's. I am glad Op is not my 'freind'. becasue she has no friendship here. she shoes no care what-so-ever for the mum. becasue nothing in Op's posts suggest thta she has any concern or love or care for thsi woman. infact quite alot of it is judgemental and a little bit nasty.
If you came round to my house for a coffeee, i don't talk to ds2 much. i talk to you. i make tea. if ds2 cries, i don't pick him up. i'm too bust enjoying your chit-chat.
Have you nay concern for this woman. She clearly does need help. but this sort of 'help' ? its no help at all. directing her to someoen who could help her is help.
being accused of abuse is not help. not nice.

haverina seems very new. very naieve. adn you say you have read the posts, but you seem not to have taken on board what some of us have said.
I liked the nice person who said something about a CAF referal, where people outside of SS reviewed to try sand see who could help her ?

I know the childs safety is the priority. But the women clearly has needs aswell.

scaryteacher no it isn't ITP but she does bruise like a peach I know how awful that is

Going to ask for my other posts to be removed, I suppose I just needed a rant but they're too detailed and don't really help the OP or add much to the thread.

"However, in most cases families subject to child protection investigations are in need of some form of support."

Where is your evidence for that?

A actual social worker on this thread has said that their estimate is that it's 50/50.

CAF is not appropriate where there are 'stay safe' concerns.

I tend to think this OP is not sincere, but it has been interesting wading through the comments and seeing who can focus on the child in this 'situation'.

I still stand by my commment that most people here wouldn't want this hypothetical mother in charge of their baby for any lngth of time, yet some are happy to leave hers in a potentially very dangerous situation.

"yet some are happy to leave hers in a potentially very dangerous situation. "

No.no.no. I never said that. something clearly needs to be done. I never suggested that it was best to do nothing.
Did anyone actually suggest doing nothing ?

I am just not sure what is best. But something needs to change.

And I agree with ISNT, they may be in need of support. but not an acqusation of abuse/neglect.
What kind of support do you think is available.
Homestart are very underfunded. They had no one available to help me when I called. I called 3 times. No one has ever benn able to offer me any decent support. Even my new Gp admitted so.
And as Alt said 50/50 of cases should never be refered. what a waste of resources. 1/2 of cases should be refered.
Have any of you taken this on board. Prof people refer people thta don't need refering and waster 1/2 of a sw'ers valueable time. This is mad.

I think it's worth some innocent parents being inconvenienced, and upset, by the investigation of unfounded accusations if it saves the occasional child from a life of misery, or even death.

Jenbot, would you support a (theoretical) position where every family in the country was regularly (say once a year) subjected to scrutiny by social services?

It's also not a matter of being inconvenienced. It's a matter of

Beign put under inordinate stress
Having people come into your home and judge you, with you knowing that they have the power to recomend removal of your children
Having reports written about you that are inaccurate, and there is no means of recourse
Feeling as if you have lost control of your family situation
Losing all faith in "the authorities" to the point that you will be extremely loath to contact them again ever expect in extreme circumstances
People develop problems with depression
They develop problems with anxiety
They lose faith in their ability to parent their children
Relationships between parents are strained, I am sure that families sometimes split under the pressure

That is actually quite a high price to pay. It is not just a bit of "inconvenience and upset". It is something which permanently damages faith and trust in society, in the authorities, in everything. You go from broadly believing that people are on your side, to understanding that they aren't.

The child is paramount, yes. The parents are irrelevant.

While there is this situation that people are petrified of SS we are never going to get anywhere.

SS needs overhauing, procedures internally and from organisations that refer need revising.

There needs to be more funding, with decent workloads and SW being able to operate in pairs.

I believe there should be some kind of advocacy service for people who are starting to get involved with SS.

The family courts should have secrecy lifted (I don't understand why it has to be secret - what's wrong with just anonymous).

There needs to be a charm offensive in the media etc.

SW need to make sure that they actully offer support to the parents that they are involved with, rather than just issuing demands and threats (I am aware that many do not behave like this - the ones that do need to be weeded out and retrained/sacked).

ISNT, when I was doing the research for my investigation I read something about that.

Apparently the thinking used to be that the family was the most important thing, as the child's first defence. And the family itself was considered and put first. Now everything is centred around the child.

I'm not saying that's wrong in principle and for children like Peter Connolly that is how the system should have worked. But for some reason it wasn't put into practice for him, yet innocent families are being subjected all the time to the things you have described.