to be unsure if I should report friend to SS?

[custardismyhamster]

Friend is 23, has dyspraxia (and other things I think as have read up on dyspraxia and it's just difficulties with co-ordination if I'm right, so she may not run as well as others etc)

She has a DD, 8 months.

Her DD is not cared for very well and I am worried. Whenever I visit her DD is passed to me and I end up caring for her. If I don't, she gets ignored-so today she was sat on floor playing with a toy, she fell and banged her head (was fine!) and cried so I left it for a few minutes, my friend ignored her so I picked her up, cuddled her, then distracted with funny faces-her DD laughed and forgot about her fall bless her.

Anyway the little girl doesn't seem to ever be properly clean (not as in oh she has baby food on her clothes-she is a baby they get messy! but as in she stinks-literally after clean nappy on etc, her hair FEELS greasy and she smells. She also has terrible exema and cream from gp, friend doesnt put it on her as 'makes my hands feel greasy')

She is also never spoken to, or interacted with by my friend, at least not when I am there.

Friend never seems to buy her anything she needs-had no cot until about 7 months old etc, but yet can afford pauls boutique bags and mac makeup for herself...hmm.

AND friend told me today that to make money (she doesn't work, but lives at home with her mother, who does work and she isn't paying any board even) that she is sleeping with men for money-in her house, in front of her DD.

This has worried me and I feel it's the final straw-should I now as a concerned onlooker be speaking to social services or similar, as am concerned about little girls welfare?

Any advice really appreciated guys as don't know what to do for the best but don't want little girl to suffer

MMM, really glad you found your teacher- I bet she was delighted to hear from you.

I think in my case, the fact that she told me probably says more about her than me, TBH. She is a stunningly brave young girl.

You can have some of my supernoodles if you want, Altinkum.

If I could be bothered to get off the sofa and make them.

altinkum - time to fake a migraine and make a hasty retreat?

Tethersend isn't that the basic minimum that any normal person would do on the revelation that a child is being repeatedly raped by a parent though.

I mean, I don't think a huge congratulations are required surely, for SS acting as they should act when it comes to their attention that something cut and dried awful is happening. Removing a child who is being raped by a parent is the only sensible and logical thing to to, it's what anyone would want to do, it's not a tricky one. I don't think flagging that up as a huge success for SS, makes much sense really. Obviously it is good that the child has been removed from that situation (and I sincerely hope that appropriate support and care are found for her), but it's SS's function to do that, she said what was happening, they acted, if they didn't do that there woulnd't be any point in having them at all.

I would say again that the children who have died, in the high profile cases on this thread, were already known to SS. They were cases where SS did not act appropriately, and that has been shown by investigations.

Whole SS departments in councils have been found not fit for purpose FGS, and yet still this insistance that SS are brilliant and mistakes are rare and that unwarranted interference is no problem.

The stats of how many children who meet death or serious harm as a result of abuse/neglect, and how many of them are already known to SS would be very interesting.

And in fact a SW has come onto this thread, and said that their LA have put in place a system whereby feedback is given when they receive resports, and if they are unwarranted, the organisation is presumably told to have a look at their processes.

That is a good thing, surely? Why do people keep coming and insisting that this is not a problem.

It is also something I have read a lot, that children sometimes (often?) do not report abuse as they have been told that SS will "come and take them away".

While SS is the "bogeyman", surely it's effectiveness is limited? There needs to be a radical overhaul, the family courts need to be opened up, the processes and procedures all need to be reviewed, and there needs to be a rethink of SS "image", and how it can be improved. So that people aren't shit scared of them.

ISNT, you raise some interesting points-

I put the word achievements in inverted comments in order to illustrate how a success in SW terms is a safe outcome for a child. Nobody is celebrating this as a success as a) it should be happening, b) it is a tragedy for the child and c) it is not newsworthy.

"I would say again that the children who have died, in the high profile cases on this thread, were already known to SS. They were cases where SS did not act appropriately, and that has been shown by investigations."

This undoubtedly happens. Nobody would dream of denying this. We need to find out why it is happening, and why so many SS departments, CP in particular, find it so difficult to recruit well trained and professional staff.

"Whole SS departments in councils have been found not fit for purpose FGS, and yet still this insistance that SS are brilliant and mistakes are rare and that unwarranted interference is no problem."

Nobody has said that. Some SS departments are brilliant, some are terrible. Some SWs are fantastic, some are incompetent. What I am saying is that even those brilliant SWs working within fantastic departments are vilified as child snatching scum of the earth/negligent and lazy (delete as appropriate), particularly by the right-wing press.

The second point- the image of SS, is more complicated. The girl I used as an example in my earlier post, when asked what she thought of SWs/SS would give you a diatribe of how evil they are and how much she hates them that would put any post on this thread to shame. Why? Because they took her away from her dad. The same dad who repeatedly raped her.

She does not feel this because of the image SS have of being the bogeyman; she feels this because -and this is the real tragedy- she loves her dad. Abused children still love their parent(s)/abuser, and it is this feeling which is such a destructive force. SS has to be the bogeyman, the 'baddie', because otherwise she would be angry with her dad, and it is impossible for her to reconcile the feelings of anger and shame she has about the abuse with the love she feels for her abuser.

This is a far more complicated issue than rebranding the image of SS to avoid being the bogeyman- the sad truth is, even when SS are doing their job correctly and providing the service that they should be, they are still the bogeyman.

I am not saying that SS does not need an overhaul- it does, desperately. It needs funding and strategies to recruit and retain professional staff, not bring in more of the punitive and accountability paperwork exercises which keep SWs from doing the job they are not paid enough to do.

Great post, tethersend!

Good post tethersend - particularly the point about abused children still viewing SS as the bogeyman.

This has been an interesting thread and hopefully some good will come out of it. Not only for the mother & child subjects of the original OP but also by way of the support thread that ISNT has started.

However, I'm not sure that it could ever be a totally balanced thread as it is unlikely somebody would post on Mumsnet to say their children were removed by SS and it was the right decision. People may be surprised to hear that parents can and often do acknowledge this - even if it is a long time after the event.

Agree tethersend. SS will always be the bogeyman. i see now way that this can ever be different.
my step dad says that in all the years of him running the adoptions team, most of the children wanted to stay with their abuser, when that person was the parent. its human nature.

With the charm offensive thing I was thinking more about taking some of the guilt out of reporting when it is needed, and taking some of the shame out of being investihated when it is unwarranted. That the reactions to investigations by people like Obs and me are the result of shock, shame, stigma and so on. If SS could be seen as more "normal" maybe that sort of damage could be limited.

It is a good point though about children and their abusers - when abusers say "if you tell they will take you away" the threat is not SS per se, it is the fact that they will no longer be with their family. I feel upset writing that TBH.

I would still be interested in stats re harm/death and already known to SS, but suspect they are not available.

Tethersend the story you tell about the girl who hated SWs and SS that happened to my mom when she was a social worker, too, it's why she co-founded Voices for children -- how bad must the foster care system be that a girl would choose the day she turned 18 to go to live with her abusive dad like that?

ISNT, I understand what you are saying, but I don't think the stigma of SS is due to misinformation, rather it's linked to its primary function IYSWIM. I think the feelings of shock and shame are due to the feeling of that which is most precious and private- our family- being investigated and threatened.

mloo, it's no reflection on the quality of care in the care system that she feels that way (the quality of care is too often substandard IMO- but that's another discussion)- rather that the feelings of love and attachment a child has for a parent don't cease when the parent becomes the abuser.

Most children abused by a family member will spend a lifetime trying to make sense of the contradictory feelings the abuse has left them with. The quality of subsequent foster care may compound the feelings of anger and resentment if it's substandard or abusive, but even the greatest foster care placement in the world will not eradicate the feelings of love and attachment which the child has for their abuser.

I think you're probably right, given what they do, eradicating the fear would be nigh on impossible.

We all want the same thing. A system that works to intervene appropriately, and not intervene inappropriately. Obviously (as someone said) SS aren't mind readers, but we all need to keep looking, thinking, working at it, so see better ways of doing things.

Some really positive things have been said on this thread.

agree with tether. it is rubbish, nonsense, that we are all frightened of ss because the DM prints scaremongering stories. scared of them taking our kids. well, yes we all know that the court has to be involved to make that decision. but the court goes on the sw'ers advice and investigations. so it IS fundamentally the sw that recommends that children be taken away. that is our underlying fear. that they have the power. to remove what is often our most cherished children.
no, actually, give me some credit, i am not that stupid. i know how it works. I know ss has failings. i know that only bad stories are reported, baby p and victoria c. i know what good work ss does. my mum worked for them for years.
no the reason why we hate them is because their help/intervention is un-requested. we don't want them in our lives. they enter our lives, if we are accused of abuse or neglect. and that acqusation is horrible.
this will never change.
how can they ever be turned into the nicely-nicey welcome party. they can't. because the job they need to do it not a nice one.