to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

Well, he can have both, can't he? Young children learn languages so easily that it would be no problem for him to know both. Whereas keeping him away from English (iyswim) during his formative years may put him at a disadvantage when it comes to learning it later.

My husband learned to speak Kikuyu, Kiswahili and English all at once and he had no problems.

It's easier for them the younger they are.

Arent the normal guidelines for one parent to speak one language and one parent another?

Lots of my friends teach their children Urdu specifically to communicate with their grandparents.

Having said that I can see why you wouldnt want to.

Seems strange your dp only speaks welsh to your ds...whats wrong with your ds hearing both languages

Can I just explode quickly at the "dead language" comments before replying...?

I am also a fluent Welsh speaker, as is DH. We speak Welsh to our 3 DC, who are 4, 6 and nearly 8. They all attended the local Ysgol Feithrin, then a Welsh medium primary school, so their education is all through Welsh. We live in a Welsh speaking area, and at least 50% of our friends are first language Welsh speakers.

My 3 have actually always been bilingual, as my mum doesn't speak Welsh and she looked after them while I worked when they were younger. However, although she doesn't speak Welsh she does understand it and is quite happy to read Welsh books etc to non-judgemental toddlers

Your DS will learn English at some point. My DC will start to study English at school when they are in Year 3, I think this is standard in all schools. But until then there is no need to introduce it if you don't want to.

Plus your PIL will be able to communicate perfectly well with him. Children with no prior knowledge of Welsh start Ysgol Feithrin at 2.5 and are spoken to in Welsh and Welsh alone (immersion method), but the children and staff can still understand each other. Communication is more than just words.

I think the recommendation is that it's best for each parent to speak their native language to a child, so that he/she hears each one being spoken by a native. If your DH was to speak English to him, then he could grow up totally bilingual, which would be nice when he has English-speaking family, as well as being a very useful skill in life.

Hecate (and anyone else ) I should stress I'm not keeping him away from English. That would be impossible - I would have to lock us both in the house, preferably soundproof (e.g. two of our postmen don't speak Welsh), ensure I have no media of any kind, and ensure he never sees (or hears) a radio or tv. Plus, I go to London from time to time, and that would have to stop.

[I am not saying this is good - step away, social services!]

He will learn it, it's just that I'm not going to speak in my second language with him as it doesn't come naturally.

Omni yes, that's the case; DH though has his own interest in speaking Welsh and not English (i.e. easy lessons, no effort learning!) He hears English a lot, but nobody much speaks it to him.

I would teach him both as surely being fluent in both could only ever be an advantage. Only knowing welsh could put him at a disadvantage later in life.

I grew up with a very similar set up to OP I don't remember a time when I wasn't bilingual. I only ever spoke Welsh at home but my friends were both Welsh and English speakers and I managed to communicate pretty well with them . I understand the principle of OPOL but in my case both my parents 1st language was Welsh at at no point would it have felt natural to speak English in our home. My parents encouraged us in both languages and I am glad I am bilingual.

I would let him learn English properly too, while it will still be easy for him to cope with both. What harm do you think will come of it? My friends have a dd who can speak Japanese and English perfectly because they spoke both at home (mum is Japanese, dad is English). I am soooo of her!

YANBU! I am incredibly jealous. My mother is welsh speaking but never spoke it to me - I'm learning it now. My children go to a welsh school but I find it incredibly hard to get into the habit of speaking what little welsh I do have to them. My DH is English.

I don't think you should introduce English purely to please people who have expressed such rude and offensive views towards your mother tongue!

He'll be bilingual whether or not your dh chooses to speak Welsh with him.
As a Welsh speaking SALT I can say wity some authority that i have never come across a Welsh speaking child who doesn't eventually speak English.

My own small (Welsh speaking) kids speak English despite rarely hearing it or watching tv much.That's because Emglish is everywhere.

I always thought, as omnishambles says, that the ideal is for both languages to be spoken at home to encourage true bilingualism. It does seem a pity that he can't communicate with his grandparents; presumably you want to encourage rather than discourage them to bond with him?

Is there any reason you are not speaking any English at all with your DS?

YANBU

As you say, he will pick up English quite naturally as it is used so commonly. After all, nobody can watch S4C all the time

I learnt English from books, friends and the tv! But I think I had a lousy American accent at first as my favourite tv programm was Dallas

But what harm is it to speak both?

I have to just add that I find it really funny that people think he won't be bilingual or won't learn English properly unless one of you speaks it to him!! Unfortunately () Welsh isn't as prevalent as all that in Wales. As the OP says, she'd have to lock him in the house and never switch the radio/TV on to bring him up only speaking Welsh.

For parents to speak both I mean!

I responded in your other thread.
We too are using welsh. DH is a native speaker as is his family, the ommunity where we live etc.
We are having to do things a little differently; as my Welsh is not nearly good enough to use as the only means of communiations with DS. However, I do use what I have, as much as possible. Like your DH I find it wonderful to be able to talk to DS and the kids at playgroup with no corrections or funny looks !
Around here what you are doing is the norm. If I spoke better welsh it would be what we would do.
My parents initial reaction was quite like your PIL. However, fortunately, they have come around and now have a group of key phrases that they with use with DS! I don't think they realised how vibrant the welsh language is. After nurmerous visits they do now!
My sister even learnt a speech, in welsh, for our wedding. DH's family was much impressed.
The more languages you have the better.

Hecate/Omni/Usual/Saphrie: why is it strange that the OP and her DH speak Welsh and not English to their child? If that is the language of their home then that is the language that they should speak to their child!

Many, many years of discouraging children from speaking Welsh (eg the Welsh Not seriously damaged the level of usage of the language. This has led our generation to be a lot more proactive in making sure that it is the first language of our children.

I think that if I were one of your PILS I would feel sad that no-one cared if I could talk to him or not.

Most children I know that have parents that speak two languages speak both fluently with no accent by 3, wouldn't it be easier for your son to learn now while he is little, rather than when he is older and it will be a conscious effort?

Also, if you have an Oxbridge PhD you are probably very brainy. YOu can't assume that your son will have the same gifts as you and find it effortless.

Speak both and he will learn both....grandparents would probably love to speak to him too.

He will need English later in life anyway (unless you have plans to keep him in your community for ever!).

I am on your other thread, so you prob know my views already. Your DS is not going to grow up unable to speak English, so I can't really see a problem with sticking to Welsh for now. 2 is still very young and I think that if speaking Welsh is helping your DH, then that is another good reason to stick to what you are doing. I live in south Wales and can hardly speak a word, but my mum is getting fluent now and is beginning to teach it to my DC (who were all born here) to supplement what they will learn at school.I struggle with lang and find Welsh very hard but expect I would have made more of an effort if I was in a welsh speaking place! My DH was born to a Danish mother, in Denmark and his father insisted that he speak English rather than Danish and I have always felt it was rather sad that he was actively discouraged from becomming fluent in the lang of the place where he was born and his mother is from. Luckily, he is very quick to pick up languages so is able to speak it now (mostly).

Yes - I think the other recommendation is that dcs dont hear a sort of pigeon [sp] language from a parent - though if your dh is fluent thats probably not an issue.

Wasnt it shown that it was far better for a dc to hear the carers language fluently - ie (it was a US study I think) Phillipino etc rather than have the carer speak non-fluent English.

I think as its Welsh it has lots of other connotations that it wouldnt have were it a French/English or other language combinations that have no political side iyswim.

OP don't think you are being unreasonable, but are you not worried that your dc might pick up your husband's bad habits in Welsh (as he is not a native speaker?