to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

The grandparents only need to speak English with him FGS as soon as they want to!
He will learn and respond.

Hmmm...DD is raised in a trilingual household. I speak to her in polish, DP in English and her brother in French. I think that since your DH's first language is English, he should speak in it to his son. I think that it's a bit mean that PILs can't communicate with their grandson. It's more obvious to expect your ds to speak English than to expect older people to learn Welsh.

Also, it's supposed to be very good for their developing brains (I think).

I agree, lovely to speak a lot of Welsh... but also lovely to speak a lot of English.

I'm totally bilingual - to a high academic level in both languages - and nobody ever spoke English to me when I was a child.

Why is it strange that my DH only speaks Welsh with DS?

I'm stressing again that I'm not keeping him away from English/not letting him hear English or anything of the sort.
Look at it this way: anybody who lives in, say, Manchester and is English and only speaks English could equally be accused of 'not letting their children hear Chinese [or insert language]'. Difference is DS will get more exposure to English than an English child will to, say, Chinese etc, because it's everywhere.

He will learn English (see helyg's fab post, she's in the same situation as me ) but I see no reason why I should start 'teaching' it to him, or even make any effort for him to pick it up - he'll do it anyway. I did, and so did every Welsh speaker I know.

Siilk, how lovely and thoguhtful of yuor sister!
I'm sure her efforts were appreciated highly.

Winny, you speak two different languages to yuor kids?

YANBU. As you say, he will learn English in his own time.

However, I do think that if it were me I would probably teach him a limited selection of ENglish words to help him to communicate with your ILs. I do think they're being a bit lazy (and ignorant) not to bother learning a little Welsh themselves, but it sounds as though they will not change their views. And I don't think it would harm your son's Welsh language skills to learn a few words like 'hello' 'please' 'thank you' etc.

helyg - I only think it strange because the dh isnt a native Welsh speaker that's all. I know all about the issues I just think it is a bit odd in a bilingual family to choose to speak only one language.

I think its much easier for a child to learn a language in the home than from school, the media and cultural influnces outside the home. Thats all. Not that the end result wont be the same just that it would be easier.

..speak it...not in it...

Doesn't your DH feel a bit weird speaking not speaking his first language to his son, though?
I spoke English to DS and it just didn't feel right (we lived in NY at the time and I thought English would seem more natural, since I've been communicating in it with everyone else-but in the end I wish I could speak to him now in Polish)

But you said earlier: "He will learn it, it's just that I'm not going to speak in my second language with him as it doesn't come naturally." perhaps it would have come naturally if you had all spoken English too as a child.

To answer the question of why people wouldn't speak English - despite the fact that there is a growing trend towards Welsh language education and the fact that Welsh is a very much alive and vibrant language, English is still the DOMINANT language in most places in Wales. It's the language you hear as you walk down the street, it's the default language in shops/doctors/libraries. It's the language you hear on TV. I know people who have only spoken Welsh to their kids and their kids STILL speak English back to them!! If parents weren't protective about making their homes a welsh-speaking household, English would dominate surprisingly quickly.

Perhaps Welsh is unique in this respect and that's why people struggle to understand that?

Your DS will also probably decide, aged about 7, that talking Welsh isn't "cool", and will start talking English at all times, even with his friends who are also first language Welsh. Then, they will start replying in English when you speak to them in Welsh.

Although he will then go to 'Steddfod yr Urdd and realise that there are lots of "cool" things that he could do through the medium of Welsh, and pethaps it isn't that bad after all

(I love my eldest. Honestly I do. But sometimes...)

YANBU.

I went to uni in aber and had a lot of Welsh-speaking friends. Not one single one of them had "crappy" English even though the language at home was Welsh.

I will be raising my son in English (my mother tongue) - there is no point me teaching him Dutch - he'll learn it properly from native speakers.

Moondog no, I'm Polish, DS's father's French, we lived in NY and spoke English to each other. Then we moved to Paris, broke up, my DP is English. So I speak in English/French to DS (I never really spoke to him in Polish), English with DP and Polish(only) with DD. So she gets polish from me, English from DP and French from DS (he's most comfortable with this language).

The Manchester/Chinese example would only hold up though if one of the parents was Chinese and yet didnt talk to her dc in Cantonese preferring to practice their English skills instead. A pretty unusual scenario I think - the dc might be cut off from the nuance of emotion and thought that the carer could express in their native language.

I do think it's odd, as in rare and unusual,that your native English speaking dh doesn't speak English to your ds.

That's because everyone bilingual couple I've known has spoken to their child/children in their own languages so that they become equally comfortable with both,though they be may initially more comfortable with the one they hear most often.

I'd find it odd no matter what languages were involved.

I don't think that you can compare a child in Manchester being unable to speak Mandarin with your situation,unless the Manchester child has a parent or close relative who has Chinese heritage and speaks the language.

Personally I'd want my child to grow up speaking both languages and wouldn't want them to be unable to speak my native tongue no matter what it was.

I can see why speaking only Welsh appeals to your dh if it helps him to practice and improve his own Welsh but personally I'd want my child to use my own native language in addition to that of the community/my partner's,from the start and not wait for them to acquire it.

It's not strange at all. Who on earth said it was strange?

It is simply that if you live in a country where more than one language is spoken, then it is best to be fluent in your own language AND the language that is spoken by the majority of your countrymen.

Again I use the example of my husband. Now, his parents could have spoken only his tribal language to him, but then he would not have been as naturally fluent and would have found it harder to communicate with the majority of his countrymen - not impossible, because of course you pick up a language if you hear it enough, but I think true fluency comes from being around a language and hearing it spoken by those close to you and growing up with it, having the opportunity to practice it, get your tongue round it

But that doesn't mean there's anything strange about the choice the OP has made and quite honestly I am baffled how you got 'strange' from anything I said.

I'm an Aber graduate too

Interesting, Winni!

The thing about the DH not speaking in English... I teach a lot of children whose parent's first language is not English (whole range of languages- Somali, Turkish, Urdu etc). Some of these parents choose to only use English with their children as they live in England and will be educated in English. Surely this is the same as for the OP? Or do people think that these parents should also use their first language at home?

How will he learn it if no one is speaking it to him?

But if you live in an area like this (and presumably where Dewin lives) then you don't actually need English as a young child.

Mine went to activities such as Ti a Fi (mother and toddlers), Library Story etc all through the medium of Welsh. they went to Ysgol Feithrin (welsh medium nursery school) then to a Welsh medium primary school. All of their lessons are in Welsh, they read in Welsh, they watch TV in Welsh (hurrah for Cyw!), their friends mainly all speak Welsh. If they go to the shop, or the library, or the doctors they all speak Welsh.

Even the most sheltered child won't reach secondary school without being able to speak English, but there is no actual need to teach it to a young child IMO.

In answer to that question Pozzled. I do think they should. I think their children are missing out if they don't also use their native language(s) with the children.

But the OP's son lives in Wales and will be educated in Welsh, Pozzled.

And he's not going to be avoiding English.

They do have an extended family which speaks English.I'd want my child to be able to converse with them.

And as mentioned before personally speaking I'd want my native language,no matter what it was,to be represented in my household.