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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to not teach my DS any English

702 replies

DewinDoeth · 07/06/2010 20:34

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

OP posts:
DreamsInBinary · 07/06/2010 21:36

I wonder if there are any Welsh people on here that think you are being unreasonable?

Not that 'the Welsh view' is more or less valid, but I think there may be different factors involved.

DuelingFanjo · 07/06/2010 21:36

oh and I think your inlaws are very rude but I can understand why they might find it harder at an older age to learn Welsh, or any language.

You would be giving your child such a lot if you taught him to be bi-lingual rather than to speak Just Welsh. What if he wants to study something in an English University?

Takver · 07/06/2010 21:37

Mummytowillow yes it is hard. Mainly because of all these damn bilingual Welsh speakers - was much easier learning Spanish since I had to speak it to communicate! Whereas it is extremely embarrassing speaking bad Welsh to people who speak perfect English.

Unfortunately I've got stuck on the stage of being able to understand pretty well, but say very little, which I think is pretty common.

Good luck

Original poster
DewinDoeth · 07/06/2010 21:38

Dueling won't be an issue, I can guarantee you he'll be fluent by age 3 - that's the point. I'm not denying him bilingualism at all - it's not possible here.

OP posts:
helyg · 07/06/2010 21:38

Nah, I look more like Rwdlan

hairytriangle · 07/06/2010 21:38

I'm a Welsh speaker.

I think as his grandparents are English speaking, it would be better if he could learn both languages simultaneously.

I don't quite get the point of why you are not teaching him any English - is there a point to it or is it just that the language at home is Welsh and the language at school is Welsh?

I think it would be beneficial for him to learn both languages that are spoken here in Wales, not to exclude one. If both of you can speak fluent English then I don't see what the problem with teaching both languages is?

DuelingFanjo · 07/06/2010 21:38

and another thing... I don't think you should be using your son to score points about the language. It's not fair on him.

I'll shut up now. It's just as a native English speaker who has learned Welsh to a certail level I think it's a shame not to give a child a chance to be bi-lingual if you can.

DreamsInBinary · 07/06/2010 21:39

DuelingFanjo - out of order to suggest OP is 'using her son to score points'

hairytriangle · 07/06/2010 21:40

Should say I think it's awful that his grandparents are not prepared to learn even a little Welsh, considering it's his (and your) first language!

Missus84 · 07/06/2010 21:40

Dueling, the child will grow up to be bilingual though - have you ever met a Welsh speaker who can't speak English?

The OP isn't denying her son English by speaking to him in Welsh.

sanfairyann · 07/06/2010 21:42

I know quite a few people who speak English to their toddlers even though it's not their first language. problem is they don't actually speak very good English so they use a poor range of vocab and make lots of mistakes. I always found that to be a shame as their children missed out on speaking the language of their grandparents and also didn't get great linguistic exposure at a young age. op's situation seems completely different so if her dh is pretty much bilingual, why not?

wannaBe · 07/06/2010 21:42

But on her other thread op used the fact that her ds speaks no english as reason for not allowing the ILs to take him out.

So by not having any English the op is in fact creating a barrier between him and his grandparents.

helyg · 07/06/2010 21:42

OK, will stop getting side tracked by unis and characters from Welsh books....

No child in Wales is going to grow up without being fluent in English.

Even if you speak nothing but Welsh to them, only let them read Welsh books and only play with Welsh friends they will still encounter some English as they are are out and about.

Even if you send them to a Welsh medium school they have to start learning to read and write in English in Year 3. By which time they can all speak it perfectly well anyway.

Not being bilingual is not the issue here. The issue is whether you introduce English at home.

Which, IMO, is entirely unecessary at the age of 2 if both parents speak Welsh.

Booboobedoo · 07/06/2010 21:44

Very impressed with anyone who learns Welsh as an adult.

I lived there as a feckless teen/twenteen and learned very little, to my everlasting regret.

However, my Welsh ll passes muster, I think. I manage it with very little spit.

When did you graduate, Dewin? 94-97, me.

(Studying English, ironically).

frakkit · 07/06/2010 21:44

DuelingFanjo - he'll learn English, definitely at school. The issue is more whether he learns it now or not!

At the end if the day I'll defend anyone's right to speak their own native language to their child, although tbh I find comments along the lines of won't it be confusing to have English only at the weekend as strange as if it were any other language! Your DS is 2, he'd cope with that!

Future DCs great-gran will be speaking Languedoc with them if she survives that long. There's a language which is even more 'dead' and 'useless' than Welsh but it's her childhood language and if she wants to speak it then I'm all for it!

DuelingFanjo · 07/06/2010 21:44

"have you ever met a Welsh speaker who can't speak English?" no I haven't

I do get that her son will learn anyway, I just wonder if it will be easier for him when he does if he has had some teaching at home?

But I do 'get' what the OP is saying and I do think her inlaws are really rude to call it a dead language.

stubbornhubby · 07/06/2010 21:45

ddod o hyd i'w ffordd yn y byd, ac i gyflawni'r holl all, mae'n
fydd yn fwy defnyddiol i siarad Saesneg yn dda, yna i siarad da
Cymru. Ni all llawer iawn o bobl yn deall Cymraeg. Teach ef
Saesneg.

BessieBoots · 07/06/2010 21:47

Cywir Dewin

Original poster
DewinDoeth · 07/06/2010 21:47

Dueling it will make no difference. Gazillions of studies prove that.

Diolch Helyg, excellent post.

Booboobeedo, christ almighty, 94-97...and shared a flat with 2 girls studying English. Are you one of them?? (You're not.)

Languedoc - impressed and jealous.

OP posts:
undercovamutha · 07/06/2010 21:47

If your PILs come to visit (or you visit them) do you speak in English in front of them? Rightly or wrongly they appear to feel excluded which is making their relationship with your DS suffer.

Original poster
DewinDoeth · 07/06/2010 21:48

Also, Bessie and I have just demonstrated that if you're Welsh you know every other Welsh person in the WORLD!

OP posts:
Missus84 · 07/06/2010 21:49

The inlaws can speak to him in English. Not speaking the same language is not a barrier to caring for an almost 2 year old - I have worked as a nanny abroad with an almost 2 year old who spoke no English and didn't have any problems. Most communication can be non-verbal at that age anyway.

LinzerTorte · 07/06/2010 21:49

How often do your PIL see your DS? Unless it's something like once a year at most, I would have thought he would pick up quite a bit of English from them alone - apart from the fact that he'll hear plenty of English as it is.

frakkit · 07/06/2010 21:50

I'm learning. It's hard! Especially as there's noone to speak it with on a regular basis. DHs family are all a but about it.

GwennieF · 07/06/2010 21:50

I see nothing wrong with that - I didn't speak any English when I started english-speaking primary school (other than the phrase 'please may I go to the toilet'). I don't remember learning English or having any communication issues with my peers....

I am fully bilingual now and while my English is not perfect - it is better than that of many native speakers.

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