to not teach my DS any English

[DewinDoeth]

Ok, moved from another thread as it seems to have got people going!

DS is two and speaks quite a lot, but only in Welsh.

I live in a Welsh-speaking community, I'm a native speaker and Welsh is my first language (in fact I'm a lecturer in Welsh lang&lit), my entire family are Welsh. DS attends a Welsh medium nursery 2 days a week, and is cared for by my mother 2 days a week. And me the other days! None of the carers speak English with him.
My DH has learnt Welsh to near-fluency, and only speaks Welsh with DS: it gives DH a chance to improve (slowly, with an nonjudgmental speaker ) and has given him a massive confidence boost when it comes to it.
I am not teaching DS any English at all, and I never speak English with him. DS will learn English quite naturally, mainly from the television, or from hearing it around when there are people who don't speak Welsh. It's how it was with me and my English is of a very high standard (no doubt there will be grammatical errors in this post now - but I have an Oxbridge PhD so it can't be all bad).

PILs are not Welsh, live 250 miles away, and have expressed sadness that 'they can't communicate with him'.
They learnt to say hello and thank you in Nepalese when they went on holiday, but despite knowing me for 10 years and my family for 6, they have never learnt any words of Welsh at all, not please or thank you, and say it's pointless because it's a dead language, and it's not an useful language.

I really don't see any problem with this - even growing up in a purely Welsh-speaking household, he'll still be exposed to so much English that he shouldn't have any problems picking it up.

FWIW my father didn't speak any English until he started school but is completely fluent now.

I can see your PIL's point of view to some extent; my parents were also slightly worried that I would speak German to the DC (we're in Austria and DH is Austrian, but I can't imagine ever speaking German to them as it's not my mother tongue) and that they wouldn't be able to communicate with their grandchildren. On the other hand it's a shame they haven't made more of an effort to learn at least a few words of Welsh though - and it most definitely is not a dead language.

I agree with the people who say that it's a bit strange for your DH not to use his native language with his DS. I speak another language very fluently, but I can't imagine ever using it (ie with no English) with my children, even if I lived in the country where it's spoken, because of the range of cultural experience etc. that I can't express other than in English.

At the risk of sounding a bit harsh, and whilst I do agree that your PIL should make a bit of an effort, they might not be around to communicate with him once he does learn the language - is it fair to make them miss out on the early years? That's not a rhetorical question, btw, I just wonder how much it interferes with their relationship with him (I don't know how often they see him, how close your relationship is, how old they are, etc etc. so not being judgey, or at least not intending to )

I think this is an issue with Welsh, actually, and a lack of understanding of native bilingualism. (As booboobedoo says).

My PILs will be speaking English with my DS - no other option really - as Biscuits says.
But people - my PILs included - have a mega attitude problem to Welsh, which they wouldn't have with other languages.

My examples were bad ones trying to make parallels!

Interesting, though, that people have the most problem with my DH speaking his second language! I know so, so many people with a non-English father whose fathers only spoke English with them (not native Greek/Turkish/Chinese/Irish - true examples). So quite commonplace, I think.

Booboobedoo - let's start a Bangor gang to get Helyg and skihorse

Where else in the world is Welsh spoken, other than in Wales

I think it makes total sense to use only Welsh.

I know literally no Welsh speakers who aren't fluent in English - despite in many cases being from totally Welsh speaking homes and going to a Welsh medium school.

I do know, on the other hand, Welsh speakers who are uncomfortable using their own mother tongue with their children in case it is 'wrong'/not the right Welsh for school/ etc.

English is such a dominant language in Wales, I can see entirely why you both want to maintain Welsh as the main language for as long as possible.

I would have thought it is very likely that your ds will understand English very soon anyway? Certainly when dd started in the nursery class in school (age 3) I don't think that any of the children in the class didn't understand English, IYSWIM (although perhaps where you are is more completely Welsh speaking?).

I agree with Booboobedoo - I don't think you can understand this one unless you've lived in Wales...

The simple fact is, the OP does not NEED to speak English to him. He will learn it anyway - and to an equally high standard as his welsh. His grandparents are worrying for no reason. Have none of you people ever been to Wales?? What language did you hear all around you? Bet it wasn't Welsh!

You are as unreasonable as my own mother. I was brought up speaking English and didn't learn a word of Portuguese at home.

Do you know why?

Because I was born and lived in England, of English parents, whose mother tongue is English. Why on earth should my mother teach me Portuguese? Or Urdu, or Dutch or Afrikaans for that matter.

WHy should you not speak only your own beautiful language in your own country?

I'm sure that, as you say, your DS will pick up English easily enough as time goes by without having it foisted upon him at home in order to appease grandparents who live 250 miles away. Perhaps, even, they'd like to learn Welsh?

amothersplaceisinthewrong - Patagonia. A friend of mine translates Welsh-Spanish for Argentinians.

Skihorse: I graduated in 2000, so yes we were there at the same time. Still haven't actually "left" Aber though

Booboobeedoo: When DS1 was born my FIL (who is first language Welsh) didn't want to speak Welsh to him as he thought that he would "get on" better in life if he didn't speak it. I find it so sad that there is still a generation who thinks like that

By the way Dewin you do realise that I have Rala Rwdins stuck in my mind now every time I look at this thread?

No it's not necessarily an issue for Welsh. I think I've made that clear on my part at least.

I've no prejudice against Welsh.I'd find the situation equally odd if only English was spoken in a household where there was one parent whose native language was Welsh,and an extended family who spoke only Welsh who weren't able to converse with their grandchild because Welsh wasn't being taught in the home.

FYI - I don't mind messing with Bangor birds but heaven forbid we have to scrap with Lampeter people!

YANBU - I'm doing the opposite, my DD is 2.9 speaks perfect English, in fact she never stops talking, but she is off to a Welsh Medium Pre-School in September, I want her to learn Welsh (as we live in Wales), I can't speak it but hopefully I will pick it up as we go along, your child you do what you want

PS Is it going to be really hard for me to learn Welsh at 40??

Anotherplace: Patagonia.

Parts of Patagonia I believe!

Me too with the Rala Rwdins thing- I keep seeing Llipryn Llwyd crying by his lake, looking for the lost hanky...

pah, Bangor

Nearly all of the mums I know speak to their children in their first language. It seems to be the natural thing to do.

There are over 40 languages spoken in my neighbourhood and a fair number of the children arrive at infant school speaking no English at all - but they all learn English fairly quickly once they get to school.

Mummytowillow - I'm learning at age 34! I'm a few years in though. I'm not going to lie to you, it is hard BUT using your child as a catalyst makes it easier. Get your hands on some of the TWF CDs, if you haven't already, and you'll pick up loads of welsh from the songs on them. Watch some Welsh TV with them and you'll pick up bits and bobs. Same with welsh books - some of which have translations. Go for it - it's really rewarding!

FFS.Do people really not see the difference between a child with two native English speaking parents living in England not being taught a language that has no cultural meaning for them e.g Tagalog, and the child of parents,one of whom speaks Welsh and one of whom speaks English,not being taught one of those languages at home?

The two do not compare.

Issue with Welsh sorry,not for.

I think your son would probably have better opportunities in the future if you teach him to speak both. I work in the Welsh Media and although I am not native Welsh and I speak very little Welsh my Welsh Olevel and further classes has been a great benefit.

I don't have a Welsh language background, both my parents spoke no Welsh at all, but I would really like to send my child to a Welsh school or at the very least to teach him/her basic Welsh as a child. being Bilingual is always a benefit, and particularly so in Wales.

Llipryn Llwyd.
Why always so miserable?

Actually, Anotherplace - I don't know if it's intentional, but I was getting a bit of the 'some languages are better/more useful than others' in that post. And I hate that. Sod the Celtic languages, because they're not spoken all over the world. (Goodbye Scots Gaelic - numbers in the low thousands now.)

The only freaky thing about my situation is my DH who has learnt Welsh well. Around here loads of people have 2 Welsh parents and no English relatives. Seriously.

Valhalla great post.

Hijack moment: Bessie na, ond dwi'n meddwl y galla i ddyfalu pwy wnaeth - A.P., nofelydd ei hun??

Helyg I should be Rala Rwdins, being a witch, but she's warty and I'm not! I think of you as Llipryn Llwyd because of your post on the other thread, and because you're willowy!