to be really annoyed at people constantly assuming I've delayed having kids til my early forties because I have chosen a career 'instead'

[hairytriangle]

when nothing could be further from the truth?

it really grinds my gears when the assumption is that if you don't yet have kids, you've 'sacrificed' it to be a 'career woman'.

and

when people ask you why you haven't had kids - like it's not really personal and it's any of their business?

Well, am I?

I can imagine it's frustrating and hurtful for you, but if people assume that, it's because increasingly, it is the most common scenario. Many of those women may well struggle to conceive and need to rely on fertility treatment, but chances are if they've made a conscious decision to dely motherhood until their late 30's or early 40's then that choice has ultimately played a part in their struggle to conceive.

Love this thread!

In my younger years, I always imagined I'd be settled down, married with 2 kids by the age of 25. It didn't happen.

Instead was incredibly unlucky in love, met more tossers than you can shake a stick at, and no-one who I would want to be with long term. 3 dating sites, 20ish dates later (with some absolute hilariously awful dates but that's a whole other story) at the age of 35, met my lovely DP who I'm marrying later this year. We had our DD last Sept at my grand old age of 36.

Most of my female friends are still single, in their late 30's and would LOVE to meet someone. They all feel their timeclock is ticking. None of them would say they have put off having kids to have a career. They work because they have to, in jobs they would give up given a nano chance to do so.
I wish they could all meet a decent lovely man as they all deserve the happiness they crave and it pisses me off they are labelled as career women or not the settling down type.

Thinking on it, I think probably the media are to blame - the perfect life in accordance with the daily mail - go to university get a good degree, find a job and live in a flatshare in an exciting city, go up a couple of rungs in your career, after dating a few different guys, meet Mr Right at the Christmas do (by the age of 25), have a perfect summer wedding, continue job for about a year, get pregnant, have 2.2 kids, then stay at home to look after them.

Life is never that easy though is it???

But tiggy that's the point of this thread - it actually isn't the most likely scenario, it's a myth. Look at the personal experiences described here. Of all the women who are TTC in their late 30s/early 40s, probably only a tiny proportion deliberately took a decision to put it off for the sake of their career (or at least to put it off that long) and a massive proportion find themselves in that situation because of a) their man having dragged his feet b) having been unable to find a mature enough man through their 20s and 30s. Others already have DC but are ttc again because they want to. And most women who work do so because they have to. This "career women leaving it too late" thing is nasty misogynist DM bollocks.

In fact, the more high-powered your career, the easier it should be to have DC as you will be better paid, have better benefits and will be less dispensable to your employer.

I n fact I think this myth stems from a deep fear and distrust of women working and having "careers" ie good, well-paid jobs with prospects - "focus on your career and you won't be able to have kids, get back in the kitchen where you belong". Most women want kids so it's a powerful message to try to suppress women and keep them away from the more traditionally male professions.

But in RL a great many highly professional women combine kids and career pretty well. You can be a GP, lawyer, in publishing, media, advertising, lecturer etc and work part-time and still get good money. Some employers are slow to get this ad still refuse p-t or flexible hours - but those that do allow it get the best results, the best and happiest staff. I also know of men who go p-t in the same way. There is no need for most careers to stand in the way of having DC at all.

Most people are quick to jugde without knowing all the facts. we can't all be the same. some have babies late coz they are waiting 4 stable relationships, others have fertility issues and others dont want to have children. thats why we have choices. so ignore them

Do you really think all people think is?? I definitely don't. I was likely enough to meet a lovely man and got married at 27 and have a ds now, but I have a couple of friends who just haven't been able to meet the right man. That's why I think alot of older women don't have children - there's a low supply of suitable partners out there!

What MarineIguana said. And this ridiculous myth ALSO assumes that women are stupid because it assumes that they are too silly to realise that fertility declines as they get older. As we are bombarded with precisely that information all the flickering time I can't imagine how any woman would NOT know that and would delay wished-for children when all other factors (committed partner, financial stability etc) are OK.

I think that what makes more people wait is not career, but trying to be sure they are with the right person and at the right time to take such a commitment.

I am experiencing people commenting on my fertility from a different perspective.

I am in my 30's and have a DD who will be 3 in August. I am pissed off frustrated with the number of people asking about when I'll be having baby number 2. For the record we have been trying for baby 2 since August 08 and we also suffered a mc in January. Of course, I don't bore them with these details and instead I smile through gritted teeth when I hear interfering old bags lovely ladies say something like 'Oh you don't want to wait too much longer, time isn't on your side now dear.'

Interesting thread. People always make judgements regardless of what you do.I married at 25 and had a child at 32. I didn't have children initially due to career and was finishing exams and didnt feel emotionally ready .Then I really was enjoying having a bit of financial stability-after paying debts- and enjoyed travelling and being a couple. We were financially in a good position to have children when I did.I however was aware of the fertility issue as I am in health profession and had accepted that if it didnt happen I would have to decide if I had no children or went down IVF route. I think as long as you know what the consequences of your decisions are, you can decide what is right for you as couple. It doesn't matter if you have children in 20's, 30's or 40's there are many issues that you have to deal with. The daily mail has a lot to answer for!

"go to university get a good degree, find a job and live in a flatshare in an exciting city, go up a couple of rungs in your career, after dating a few different guys, meet Mr Right at the Christmas do (by the age of 25), have a perfect summer wedding, continue job for about a year, get pregnant, have 2.2 kids, then stay at home to look after them."

Sounds alright actually. Where do I sign up?

I am now going to make a point of responding thusly if anyone asks me about children:

"You should be careful asking people personal questions like that, as you don't know their circumstances. I just don't want children yet, but the next person you ask might be unsuccessfully trying to get pregnant, or might have had a miscarriage, or might be having trouble with their partner, and you could really upset someone without meaning to."

Interesting discussion.

I hate prying questions about when people are going to have children. In my experience they usually come from people who are younger and haven't thought about trying themselves yet (I work with a lot of people in their early twenties), or people who had no problems conceiving and can't imagine that there could be any reasons/problems for not doing so on demand (obviously most people who have conceived easily or who are young are not insensitive).

We started trying when I was 26, and even then it took about six months or so to persuade my husband it was the 'right time'. Well in the end it took three years and fertility treatment. I'm having my first at 30 which is pretty close to average, but I still had to put up with lots of questions about why I'd been married for so long without kids. And I consider myself reasonably lucky in that although we had problems, at least we discovered them fairly early on.

Now that I'm due to give birth the girls at work are wondering out loud who will have a baby next. They discount the woman I know has been trying for years (I think they assume she doesn't want them). Sigh. After what we've been through I don't think I'd ever ask - I tend to think that if someone doesn't have kids there are many reasons why that's the case, and most of them very personal. Unless someone's a close friend, I don't need to know that info unless volunteered.

blueshoes,
I disagree that you should wait for emotional maturity or even financial stability before TTC. I think tax breaks would help women in their twenties take time out to have babies at their most fertile time.
I'm a bit at the idea that people in their twenties aren'T able to get it together enough to cope with kids properly. We're not talking about teenagers. People don't necessarily keep on maturing as they age, and you never know whats going to happen financially.

Certainly a myth in my case - I didn't meet DH until I was 35 (he is 9y younger), we spent the next 3 years doing a loooong distance relationship, during which it would have been ridiculous to have a child; and then when we discussed it, he said he'd like to wait until he was 35 before having DC. I pointed out I would be 44 by then and wasn't keen to leave it that long, especially as he wants 2 DC - so we started SWI from that point on and I was lucky enough to fall pg quite quickly, and had DS when I was 40.

NOT the way I had imagined my life going when I was younger - I had always wanted to be a young mum, like mine was, not "old" like my Dad (he was 33 when I was born) - but as many of you have said, lack of a suitable partner kind of screwed all that up for me.

Certainly wasn't my career, such as it was, although I admit I would have struggled to do the things I did if I had had DC (but if I had had DC, I would also (hopefully) have had a partner as well so it wouldn't have been that difficult. Still - different trouser leg discussion - this is where we are, I am now 42, closing on 43 quite fast and we are still ttc no. 2 and not doing too well.

I'd give a lot to have met DH 5 years beforehand (except that he would have been an extremely callow 21 then and I probably wouldn't have touched him with a 10' bargepole!) - or at least for me to have had 5 years less under my belt and in this position.

Sakura, I would not support any form of fiscal encouragement to having babies early. It is that simple really.

Earlier childbearing means the likelihood of more babies over a lifetime. Unless you can control the sort of family these children will be born into (you cannot without very blunt tools) and the quality of the product, I don't see the point in encouraging people to reproduce earlier than they would.

DuellingFanjo - yup, both did the same thing, it seems, but we can't beat ourselves up about it, we must just keep positive and thankful that we eventually did give ourselves the chance, and we did both find lovely men who wanted kids before it was too late! love ya sis! ;)

tiggy where is your evidence?

I find your comment realy insulting.

All the media reports seem to make the instant correlation - late mother = career was more important - WITHOUT any evidence to back it up! The more we shout out loudly and proudly - NO IT WAS MY SHIT CIRCUMSTANCES - the more I think it will become clear that there are LOADS OF US out here who yes, are career people, but didn't necessarily delay it BECAUSE of our careers!!! Hmf.

I think the message should be not 'don't delay kids because of your career' but much more empowerment for women to get out of shit relationships.

sorry to bombard - the other annoying thing is any little illness and you get 'ooh could you be pregnant?'(ie: you're a woman with no kids and reaching 'past it' so you must be' - feel like saying, 'no, afaik, a cough or cold, a sprained ankle, a stomach bug or a rash are not symptoms of pregnancy now heck off and leave me and my personal parts alone!!!'

Yes its a really annoying assumption. I had always hoped to have 3 kids before 35 and ended up having my 3rd at 39. I'd happily have a fourth if dh was keen and we were better off financially.

As for this career woman nonsense, I still work part-time although am having a fab mat leave just now. We could not cope financially on one salary even though we are both in good jobs. There's also an assumption that you should be financially comfortable when you get to forty. Fat chance with mortgages bills etc.
People are far too nosy. When I had our last son the mw pinned a big 39 above my bed and then asked if we'd married late.
I just could not be bothered justifying the whole complex business of our lives so I just ignored her and focused on my next contraction!

It also works the other way.

DD will be 26 in June. Has 4 DC. Youngest just 1 and the eldest just turned 7.

She also gets lots of comments such as

1. You poor thing you really must have missed out on a lot.

2. How do you manage 4 children at your age.

3. The asume that she doesn't have a career

4. When I met someone I havn't seen for a long while and I tell them that DD is married with 4 children, the usual comment is "but she was so bright at school, wht a waste"

DD in her short almost 26 years has married, has a mortgage, completed a 4 year university degree in Pimary Teaching. Is curently 3 quarters of the way through a Bachelor of Theology, has 4 extremely well adjusted DC, a great supportive DH (I guess that should be first).

I am extremely proud of her and I am glad that I am a relatively young grandma in excellent health and can enjoy DGC to the utmost.

When people make comments I just reply. "She is doing what she wants to do".

I think what it boils down to is that people like to comment on others' lives, regardless - and there are a lot of people who like to comment negatively if things fall outside their sphere of "normality". My mum was one such - anything that didn't register on her scale of norm was considered "weird" and lots of other derogatory terms. She could be quite small minded, sadly.

Went to a baby shower yesterday . Nephew's partner.

She is 44 and she hasn't had any comments one way or the other.

She looks and acts very young.

Also she had a miscarriage at 42 and the specialist said to her "Don't dare let anyone tell you it was because of your age, these things just happen, ".

Sure enough, this time she has had a trouble free pregnancy.

It just seemed extra special going to this baby shower because she had waited so long for her first child. (Again through circumstances not choice).

I can honestly say that when I see a mum with a baby. that's all I see.

It doesn't even enter my brain to think about the age of the mum.

Coralanne your daughter sounds like a wonderful woman.

And wow, good for the doctor! Only once during my miscarriage have I heard a twinge of 'ageism' (when dr was talking to consultant about me on phone and said several times 'she's forty two' with that almost pitying tone in her voice). Everyone else has been fantastic, inclding nurses and doctors who have said 'we know you're keen to get on with it again!' when I've fought hard to avoid a horrible poisonous injection to make it happen quicker!

and get me! Discussion of the day and I'm just a newbie! LOL